Moving Average Versus Standard Kosten

Wie viel kostet ein Zimmermädchen-Service Wenn Sie ein Zimmermädchen reinigen Sie Ihr Haus auf einer regelmäßigen Basis - oder eine einmalige Tiefenreinigung - ist eine wunderbare Möglichkeit, um Ihr Zuhause kümmern, ohne stundenlang auf die Knie mit Reinigung Lieferungen. Regelmäßige Reinigung hilft auch, Holzböden, Möbel, Polster und Arbeitsplatten zu bewahren. Sie können durch die potenziellen Kosten für die Einstellung eines Dienstmädchens eingeschüchtert werden, aber bevor Sie entmutigt werden, hier sind eine Reihe von Faktoren, die Ihren Preis senken könnte oder machen es lohnt sich unabhängig. Auf dieser Seite: Wie viel kostet Maid Service Die durchschnittliche Reinigungskosten beträgt 158, obwohl Hausbesitzer könnten überall zwischen 116 und 227 für ihre Dienste verbringen. In der Regel werden Zimmermädchen Gebühren entweder durch die Stunde oder Quadratmeterzahl. Pro Stunde kosten zwischen 25 und 35. Quadratmetergebühren abhängig von der Größe Ihres Hauses. Zum Beispiel könnte eine Fläche von weniger als 1.000 Quadratmetern im Durchschnitt 120, während 3.000 Quadratmetern oder mehr 140 kosten könnte. Einige Dienstmädchen können eine erste Reinigung durch den Quadratfuß tun. Dies ermöglicht dem Hausmädchen zu bestimmen, wie lange es dauert, um Ihr Haus zu reinigen und eine Vorstellung davon, was besondere Aufmerksamkeit Ihres Hauses erfordern kann wie hohe Deckenventilatoren, zerbrechliche Antiquitäten, etc. zu erhalten. Im Durchschnitt kostet das typische Einfamilienhaus kostet 130 . Zimmerreinigung für Wohnungen im Durchschnitt 100 und für Unternehmen rund 150. Wie oft Sie erwarten, dass die Zimmermädchen kommen können auch Ihre Kosten beeinflussen. Mehrere Besuche können tatsächlich net Sie einige Einsparungen. Einsparungen können typischerweise etwa 5 bis 10 pro Reinigung betragen. Sie können in der Lage, einen weiteren Rabatt durch die Zahlung für mehrere Säuberungen im Voraus oder durch die Unterzeichnung eines Vertrages für den langfristigen Service zu erhalten. Dies windet sich sparen Sie überall von 50 bis 200 auf lange Sicht. Zimmermädchen können eine einmalige Reinigung zu tun. Dies kann nützlich sein, um Ihr Zuhause für eine Urlaubsfeier, Besichtigungen von potenziellen Käufern oder Wohnungen nach einem ausgezogenen Mieter und bevor eine neue kommt in. Für die typische Heimat, sind diese Kosten in der Regel etwa 200 bis 300 nützlich. Wie schätzen die Kosten von Maid Service Andere Faktoren ins Spiel kommen, wenn die Zahlung für einen Dienstmädchen Service als gut. Diese Faktoren umfassen die Anzahl der Räume zu reinigen, wie viele Bäder gibt es, wenn Sie besondere Bedürfnisse für bestimmte Arten von Reinigungsmitteln, Zugänglichkeit zu den Zimmern und Reisezeit zu Ihnen nach Hause haben. 1. Bestimmen Sie, wie viele Räume Sie reinigen möchten. Machen Sie eine Liste der Räume in Ihrem Haus, das Sie gereinigt haben möchten und überlegen Sie, wie lange es dauern würde, diese Räume selbst zu reinigen. Obwohl ein Dienstmädchen kann schneller sein, ist es ein guter Weg, um eine allgemeine Schätzung der Zeit und Kosten für die Einstellung jemand anderes für Sie zu reinigen. Je mehr Zimmer Sie haben, desto teurer die Kosten für die Reinigung. Wenn Sie nicht ein Haus haben, das schnell schmutzig wird, können Sie wählen, um eine bestimmte Anzahl von Räumen zu reinigen jeden Besuch und jedes Mal drehen. Auf diese Weise wird jedes Zimmer innerhalb eines bestimmten Zeitraums gereinigt, und Sie können ein wenig auf die Kosten zu sparen. 2. Zählen Sie die Anzahl der Schlafzimmer. Durch die Zählung Schlafzimmer können Zimmermädchen eine Vorstellung von der Belegung und Nutzung Ihres Hauses zu bekommen. Höhere Besetzung bedeutet oft ein bisschen mehr Aufräumen. Ein großes Haus mit nur zwei Schlafzimmern wird im Allgemeinen nicht so viel Arbeit wie ein kleines Haus mit vier Schlafzimmern erfordern. Ein Schlafzimmer kann spezifische Reinigungsbedürfnisse auch haben. Zum Beispiel kann ein Schlafzimmer einen begehbaren Kleiderschrank, der Staubsaugen und Staubsaugen erfordert. Eine Kommode, die mit kleinen Fotos und anderen Erinnerungsstücken überlastet wird, braucht mehr Zeit zum Reinigen. 3. Zählen Sie die Anzahl der Bäder. Bäder sind vielleicht die am meisten betroffenen Räume zu reinigen. Sie verwenden auch oft die härtesten Reiniger. Badezimmer benötigen spezielle Reinigungsmittel für spezifische Aufgaben. Zum Beispiel, ein Toilettenreiniger funktioniert nicht gut auf einer Dusche, und ein Duschereiniger funktioniert nicht gut auf einer Toilette. Die Spüle und Eitelkeit wird ihre eigenen Arten von Reinigern benötigen, und die Spiegel erfordern noch eine andere. Duschtüren benötigen einen Reiniger speziell für die Beseitigung von harten Wasserflecken und Seifenrückstände. Fußböden müssen auch mit ihren eigenen Reinigern gewischt werden. Natürlich, je größer das Bad, desto mehr wird es zu reinigen sein. Ein Master-Bad könnte umfassen: eine große Dusche, eine Badewanne, seine und ihre Eitelkeiten, seine und ihre Spülen, große Spiegel, mehrere Leuchten und Zubehör für die Badewanne und Dusche. Einige von diesen können metallische Oberflächen umfassen, die spezielle Reinigungsmittel erfordern, wie Messing oder Edelstahl. Wenn Ihre Wanne und Fliesen Marmor sind, erfordern sie besondere Sorgfalt, weil so hart wie es ist, ist Marmor porös und Kratzer leicht. Da Bäder sind so anspruchsvoll in ihrer Wartung, gibt es einige Dienstleistungen, die nur Badezimmer reinigen. Ein typischer Preis für diesen Service ist etwa 25 pro Stunde. 4. Entscheiden Sie sich zwischen Standard - und umweltfreundlichen Reinigern. Denken Sie über die Produkte, die Sie in Ihrem Haus verwenden möchten. Viele Menschen bevorzugen umweltfreundliche, ungiftige Produkte. Wenn dies ist, was Sie wollen, müssen Sie klar sein, über diese von Anfang an. Die meisten Hausreiniger werden Sie bitten, Ihre eigenen Reinigungsmittel liefern oder zahlen für ihre. So, wenn Sie spezifische Produktbedürfnisse haben, könnte es Faktor in den Preis. Um zu sehen, welche Art von Kostenunterschied gibt es, vergleichen Sie die gemeinsamen Produkte unten: Fensterreiniger (32 Unzen) Standard-Marken wie Windex - ca. 3 grüne Marken wie Green Works - 5,50 bis 8 Teppich Fleckenreiniger (22 oz. ) Standard-Marken wie Spot Shot - 4 Green Marken wie Simple Green - 5 Bodenreiniger (144 oz.) Standard-Marken wie Pine-Sol - 14 Green Marken wie Simple Green - ca. 20 Dish Seife Standard-Marken Wie Dawn (24 oz) - 2 grüne Marken wie Green Works (22 oz) - 3 Wie Sie sehen können, kosteten ökologische Reiniger mehr. Wenn Sie sicherstellen möchten, dass nur grüne Produkte verwendet werden, sollten Sie diese liefern. 5. Liste aller besonderen Umstände wie Allergien, Antiquitäten und Haustiere. Wertvolle Antiquitäten in Ihrem Haus Hohe Decken und erfordern eine Leiter zu Staub der Deckenventilator Eine Katze, die nie im Schlafzimmer oder einem Hund, der auf alles verschüttet wird Manche Hausreiniger haben Dinge, die sie nicht tun oder kostenlos extra, so ist es Am besten geeignete Erwartungen zu setzen. Allergien und chemische Empfindlichkeit können Sie auch ein bisschen mehr kosten. Einige Reiniger, wie Fabuloso, haben einen sehr starken Duft, dass einige Leute zu stark finden. Bleichmittel und andere gewöhnliche Reinigungsmittel können auch ein wenig scharf sein. Während viele grüne Reiniger nicht Düfte, Farbstoffe oder Parfums haben, kosten sie ein wenig mehr und Sie können angefordert werden, sie zu liefern. Standard Staubsaugerbeutel lassen tatsächlich etwas Staub entweichen. Für die meisten Menschen ist dies kein Problem, aber eine Person mit einer schweren Allergie erfordern spezielle Staubsaugerbeutel verwendet werden. Es gibt zu viele Faktoren, um festzustellen, wie viel diese Ihre Kosten erhöhen (wenn überhaupt, wie einige Dienstmädchen-Dienstleistungen nur grüne oder Anti-Allergen-Produkte verwenden). Allerdings, um Ihnen eine Idee: Ein 12-Pack von regelmäßigen Staubsaugerbeutel kostet etwa 4 Eine Allergen-reduzierende Packung von 3 kostet etwa 7 Thats etwa 33 Cent eine Tasche versus ca. 2,50 eine Tasche. Wenn Sie Haustiere haben, müssen Sie die Zimmerreinigung wissen lassen. Hunde, insbesondere können sehr schützend für ihre Häuser und müssen möglicherweise beschränkt werden. Katzen sind nicht so sehr eine Verletzung Sorge, da sie eine Flucht-Sorge sind. Wenn Sie einen von Hand trainierten Vogel haben, der gerade außerhalb seines Käfigs gut ist, seien Sie sicher, sie in ihre Käfige für ihre eigene Sicherheit zu setzen. Das Vorhandensein von Haustieren kann auch Auswirkungen auf Ihre Kosten, wenn sie eine Menge vergossen. Abhängig von den Stoffen auf Ihre Möbel, Haustierhaare kann sehr schwer zu entfernen. Wenn Ihr Haustier hat freien Lauf des Hauses, könnte dieser Faktor in fast jedem Raum vorhanden sein. 6. Bestimmen Sie, ob Sie schwer zugängliche Bereiche haben. Wenn es Teile Ihres Hauses, die schwieriger zugänglich sind, wie z. B. sehr hohe Decken, Fenster oder Regale, können Ihre Hausreiniger eine zusätzliche Gebühr mit allem, was die Verwendung einer Leiter oder schwer zugänglichen Stellen verbunden sind, verbunden sein. Hohe Decken haben in der Regel Deckenventilatoren von denen, die eine Leiter aufstehen müssen, auch wenn ein Stab verwendet wird. Oft ein Haus mit hohen Decken hat auch hohe oder hohe Fenster und hohe Regale. Dies ist nicht nur ein bisschen zusätzliche Arbeit, um die Leiter in, aufzustellen, und wieder zurück, seine auch ein Sicherheitsrisiko. Ein Dienstmädchen wird höchstwahrscheinlich haben, um Ihre Leiter zu benutzen, und wenn es nicht in guter Form ist, könnten Sie haftbar gemacht werden für Verletzungen. (OSHA hat einen ganzen Abschnitt gewidmet nur Leitern.) Mehrstöckige Häuser erfordern bewegen schwerere Haushaltsgeräte wie Staubsauger bis Treppen hinauf. Auch Reinigungsschienen und Balustraden können zusätzliche Kosten verursachen, wie es die Aufgabe des Staubsaugens der Treppe selbst ist. 7. Finden Sie heraus, ob sich Ihr Haus im Servicebereich befindet. Einige Zimmermädchen Dienste berechnen eine Reise Gebühr, wenn Ihr Haus außerhalb ihrer Service-Bereich ist. Wenn Sie dies vermeiden möchten, suchen Sie Dienstmädchen, die in Ihrer allgemeinen Nähe sind. Wie viel diese Ladung ist sehr unterschiedlich und kann durch Faktoren wie die Abgeschiedenheit Ihres Hauses, die Arbeitsbelastung auf dem Zimmermädchen und die Kosten für Gas beeinflusst werden. Achten Sie darauf, zu überprüfen, was ihre Service-Bereich ist und Shop rund. Ein Dienstmädchen kann mehr Anrufe, als sie behandeln können und kann mehr verlangen, während ein anderer, der die Arbeit braucht möglicherweise eine niedrigere Reise Gebühr, um das Geschäft zu bekommen. Unabhängige Betreiber vs Unternehmen Es gibt viele Zimmermädchen Dienstleistungen zur Auswahl. Sie reichen von einzelnen Menschen auf der Suche nach zusätzlichen Einkommen zu vollwertigen Unternehmen mit bundesweiten Dienstleistungen. Welches Sie wählen, hängt ganz von Ihren persönlichen Vorlieben ab. Unabhängige Betreiber oft weniger, manchmal so wenig wie 10 pro Stunde. Als unabhängige, können Sie manchmal verhandeln eine akzeptable Rate. Nur wenige, wenn überhaupt, benötigen einen Vertrag, und Änderungen an Ihrem Reinigungsplan sind in der Regel kein Problem. Viele können Hinweise geben, um die Qualität ihrer Arbeit und ihre persönliche Integrität und Ehrlichkeit zu bestätigen. Es gibt Websites, in denen einzelne Dienstmädchen können ihre Dienstleistungen zu werben und ihre Qualifikationen und Spezialitäten Liste. Maid Service-Unternehmen sind gebunden, lizenziert und versichert, aber sie in der Regel mehr kosten, etwa 25 bis 35 pro Stunde. Viele verlangen Verträge und können nicht in der Lage, Last-Minute-Zeitplan Änderungen unterzubringen. Allerdings haben Zimmermädchen Unternehmen bessere Zuverlässigkeit. Wenn das Dienstmädchen, das Ihr Haus reinigt, krank ist, können sie einen anderen Mitarbeiter anrufen, der dieselben Qualifikationen wie Ihr normales Dienstmädchen haben wird. Wie bei jedem Service, erhalten Referenzen unabhängig davon, ob youre unter Berücksichtigung einer Firma oder einer Person und überprüfen Sie HomeAdvisor Bewertungen sowie überall sonst können Sie sie finden. Drei bis fünf sollten ausreichen, um Ihnen eine Vorstellung davon, was das Niveau der Service zu erwarten. Was zu erwarten von einem Zimmermädchen Service Ein Dienstmädchen kann erwartet werden, zu Ihrem Haus zu kommen und zu reinigen. Aber was bedeutet, dass die Standard-Zimmermädchen gehören: Staubsaugen Ihre Böden. Kann aber ggf. polieren, wenn nötig. Aber wenn Sie Antiquitäten oder andere solche Elemente gereinigt werden, kann es mehr kosten, je nachdem, wie zerbrechlich sie sind oder wenn spezielle Reinigungsmittel verwendet werden müssen. Schrubben Böden, Waschbecken und Arbeitsplatten. Aber wenn Sie alte oder beschädigte Mörtel haben, kann alle ein Dienstmädchen tun, ist es sauber. Einige Dienstmädchen bieten andere Aufgaben als Teil ihrer regelmäßigen Service, dass die meisten nicht. Zum Beispiel können einige laden Sie Ihre Spülmaschine andor ändern Bettwäsche. Während die meisten Dienstmädchen reinigen Sie Ihre Köchin, einige werden auch die Reinigung der Innenseite des Ofens auch. Einige Dienstmädchen reinigen die Innenseite der meisten Standard-Fenster, aber die Außenseite ist entweder eine zusätzliche Gebühr oder nicht bedeckt. In der Tat, die meisten Zimmerreinigung nicht die Außenreinigung. Einige nehmen auch den Papierkorb, aber nicht davon ausgehen. Es gibt Dinge, die die überwiegende Mehrheit der Zimmermädchen nicht tun. Die meisten werden nicht: Tut das Geschirr. Wäsche waschen. Waschen Wände, es sei denn, es wurde vereinbart, und wird eine zusätzliche Gebühr zu tragen. Mini-Jalousien können auch eine zusätzliche Gebühr. Schließlich wird ein Dienstmädchen nicht abholen, nachdem Sie. Es ist ein Witz darüber, dass man aufräumen muss, bevor das Dienstmädchen eintrifft, aber es ist eine Realität dahinter. Wenn Ihr Fußboden mit zerstreuten Spielwaren, Büchern, Spielen und so weiter überladen wird, kann sie Vakuum es nicht. Eine Einzelperson, die durch die Stunde aufladen wird, kann es tun, aber sein Gehen, das oben kostet Sie mehr. Allerdings wollen nur sehr wenige Menschen verantwortlich für das Brechen jemand elses Habseligkeiten, so wird es als Ihre Verantwortung, sie abzuholen gesehen werden. Während die meisten Zimmermädchen brauchen, um zu sehen, was braucht Reinigung, bevor Sie ein Angebot, hier sind ein paar Beispiele Preise für viele gemeinsame Aufgaben und einige Extras: 900 sq. Ft. 2-Zimmer-Wohnung, 5 Zimmer Einmalige Reinigung - 70- 200 Zweiwöchentliche Reinigung - 60-125 1300 sq. Ft. Einstöckiges Haus, 7 Zimmer Einmalige Reinigung - 90-300 Zweiwöchentliche Reinigung - 80-150 2200 sq. Ft. Zweistöckiges Haus mit 3 Schlafzimmern, 9 Zimmer Einmalige Reinigung - 150-400 Zweiwöchentliche Reinigung - 100-180 Fensterreinigung, Innenraum (außen wenn sicher möglich) - 20-70 Kältemaschinenreinigung (einschließlich Entfernen und Austauschen) - 30 Ofenreinigung - 25-30 Move - In-Move-Out - 190-330 Whole House Reinigung Ganzes Haus Reinigung ist ein Service, der über und über einfach Staub, Staubsaugen und Schrubben geht. Vollständige Hausreinigung umfasst Reinigung Beleuchtung Leuchten, Schalter, Steckdosen, Sockelleisten, Luftkanäle, Fliesen, Fugenmörtel, Polster, Teppichreinigung, trimmen, Kronenformen und eine ganze Reihe von Dienstleistungen gewidmet geben Ihrem Haus eine tiefe Reinigung. Im Gegensatz zu einem typischen Zimmermädchen, eine ganze Hausreinigung umfasst bewegliche Möbel, um in den Bereich unter und dahinter zu bekommen. Diese Art von Service wird in der Regel verwendet, um ein Zuhause für die Anzeige von potenziellen Käufern, Post-Bau-Clean-up, oder für die Reinigung von extremen Fällen, wie mit einem Schreiner gesehen werden kann vorzubereiten. Es ist ein sehr engagierter Service und kann ein bisschen kosten. Ganzes Haus Reinigung Dienstleistungen sind in der Regel auf einer einmaligen Basis durchgeführt. Die Kosten für eine ganze Hausreinigung reicht von ein paar hundert Dollar, um ein paar tausend. Faktoren, die diese Kosten beeinflussen, sind: Quadratmeterzahl des Hauses - Ein größeres Haus wird mehr Arbeit beinhalten. Es gibt mehr Luftleitungen, mehr Fenster, mehr Wände, mehr Bodenfläche, etc. Geschichten - Ein mehrstöckiges Haus erfordert schwere Geräte auf und ab Treppen. Genau wie bei einem normalen Dienstmädchen, wird dies in der Regel mehr kosten. Hohe Decken - Decken sammeln Staub und Spinnweben, und Leuchten und Deckenventilatoren müssen gereinigt werden. Bei hohen Decken bedeutet dies das zusätzliche Risiko, an einer Leiter zu arbeiten. Möbel - Einige Zimmermädchen Dienstleistungen wird die Polsterung, aber ein ganzes Haus Reinigung auch Deodorierung der Möbel und macht es vorzeigbar. Teppiche - Maid Dienstleistungen werden Vakuum Ihre Teppiche. Wenn Sie eine tiefe Reinigung benötigen, aber ganze Hausreinigung beinhaltet Shampoonieren und Extraktion. Dies ist besonders wichtig, wenn Sie Ihr Haus zu verkaufen, sondern haben Haustiere. Natürlich wird eine ganze Hausreinigung mehr kosten als die typische Hausreinigung. Als Grundlinie Idee, was zu erwarten ist zu zahlen, hier ist ein Beispiel für einige Preise für eine Tiefenreinigung auf Zimmer. Denken Sie daran, dass die Preise spiegeln einen Durchschnitt und könnte je nach der Größe des Raumes, Vorrichtungen, Geräte, etc .: Küche - 75 oder mehr Vollbad - 45 oder mehr Half Bath - 15 oder mehr Schlafzimmer - 30 durchschnittlich Wohnzimmer - 30 durchschnittliche Esszimmer - 30 durchschnittliche Andere Gemeinschaftsräume - 30 durchschnittliche Home Office - 15 durchschnittliche HallsStairs - 30 durchschnittliche Teppichreinigung - 75-200 für ganze Haus, oder 0,25-0,50 pro Quadratmeter Möbel - - Entfernen von Flecken und Gerüchen - 50-100 Windows - Normale Fenster können 5 pro Fenster, 3 pro Bildschirm kosten. Polieren oder Wachsen - Durchschnitt 0,25-0,50 pro Quadratfuß. Einige Unternehmen haben ein Minimum für diese je nach der Größe des Hauses. Sollten Sie mieten eine wöchentliche oder monatliche Housekeeper oder Maid Service Wie oft haben Sie einen Zimmermädchen zu Ihrem Haus kommen, hängt von Ihren Bedürfnissen und Ihrem Zeitplan. Vielleicht brauchen Sie nur ein wenig Hilfe bleiben oben auf Dinge, wie wenn Sie älter oder behindert sind, oder Sie könnten eine Menge Hilfe benötigen, weil Sie Ihren Terminkalender oder weil Sie viel unterhalten. Hier ist eine Vorstellung von dem, was die verschiedenen Zeitpläne am besten geeignet sind für: Wöchentlich - Eine wöchentliche Reinigung ist ideal für diejenigen mit geschäftigen Leben und viele soziale Verpflichtungen. Für diese Menschen, auch ein einfaches Abwischen der Küche Zähler und Staubsaugen kann eine Crimp in ihre überladenen Zeitpläne. Selbst diejenigen, die zu Hause arbeiten, können sich ohne die Zeit finden, weit über das Notwendige hinauszugehen, je nach Art der Arbeit. Bi-wöchentlich - Als allgemeine Unterhalt-Art der Dienstleistung, ist dies der beliebteste Zeitplan für viele Häuser. Seine ideal für jemanden, der beschäftigt ist, aber nicht mit Arbeit oder soziale Verpflichtungen überlastet. Monatlich - Eine einmonatige gründliche Reinigung sorgt für einen guten, regelmäßigen Service für Ihr Zuhause. Während es sein kann teurer als die beiden vorigen Optionen aufgrund der Arbeitsbelastung beteiligt, seine auch oft genug für Leute, die nicht viel unterhalten und wer nicht besonders Zeitpläne geladen haben. Normalerweise, je öfter ein Zimmermädchen kommt zu Ihrem Haus, desto weniger wird es Sie pro Besuch kosten. Mit solch einem routinemäßigen Zeitplan, wird der Reinigungsservice am ehesten haben die Reinigungsmittel, die Sie benötigen, so dass Sie nicht haben, um sie zu kaufen (es sei denn, Sie bestimmte Produkte aufgrund von Allergien, Umweltbelange, etc.). Wöchentliche und zweiwöchige Besuche sind nicht nur kostengünstiger, sie sind auch gesünder. Eine routinemäßige Reinigung Ihres Hauses reduziert Allergene, Bakterien und andere gesundheitliche Bedenken für Ihre Familie. Ein wöchentlicher Besuch kann sparen 5 bis 10 pro Besuch, nicht einschließlich, was youll sparen, wenn Sie nicht haben, um Ihre eigenen Reinigungsmittel zu kaufen. Fazit Welche Dienstleistung Sie wählen, Unternehmen oder Einzelpersonen, welche Ebene der Service, den Sie wählen, und wie oft Sie die Zimmerreinigung kommen, wird ganz auf Ihre Bedürfnisse und Ihr Budget ab. Einige Leute haben nur gewisse schwer verwendete Räume, die regelmäßig gereinigt werden, was ziemlich viel spart, während andere ihr ganzes Haus nur einmal in eine Weile reinigen müssen. Was auch immer Sie sich entscheiden, achten Sie darauf, dass die Zimmermädchen kommen und sehen Sie Ihr Haus, und lassen Sie sie wissen, jede besondere Anforderung Ihres Hauses haben können, von empfindlichen Sammlerstücke zu potenziell schwer zugänglichen Bereichen. Auf diese Weise können sie Ihnen die genaueste Schätzung für Ihr Zuhause geben. Vor mehr als 1 Jahr möchte ich etwas Hilfe für 2 Wochen (nicht jeden Tag) für meine Tochter um die Feiertage mieten. Sie arbeitet zu Tode mit Dekorationen und Kochen und Reinigen. Die Reinigungsdienste, mit denen ich bisher gesprochen habe, sind jedoch unmöglich. Sie wollen o laden Sie entsprechend dem, was Sie getan haben wollen. Ich suche eine Flatrate am Tag, und ja 8 Stunden, nicht zwei Leute für 2 Stunden, die mich 80,00 kosten. Mehr als 1 Jahr Hallo Ich stieß auf Ihren Kommentar. Im nicht sicher, wenn Sie in unserem Service-Bereich sind, aber keine Dust Cleaning Services LLC möglicherweise in der Lage, Ihnen zu helfen. Sie können für unsere Firma hier suchen Home Advisor. Wir bieten Ihnen flache Preise an und wir würden die Gelegenheit lieben, Ihnen zu dienen, solange Sie in Tampa Fl. Wenn Sie in Tampa sind, geben Sie uns einen Anruf :) Vor mehr als einem Jahr habe ich Ihren Kommentar sorgfältig gelesen und denke, es ist zu vage in Bezug auf was Sie wollen getan und wie oft. Es ist auch kurzfristig und ich sehe ein potenzielles Problem für den Dienstleister mit Ihrer Vorliebe für eine Flatrate. Es macht den Dienst anfällig für Forderungen, die möglicherweise nicht im Voraus vereinbart wurden. Es wäre am besten für alle zu vereinbaren und zu verstehen, so viele Details wie möglich. Dieser Abschnitt hat eine Menge guter Informationen, die hilfreich wäre und geben Ihnen einen anderen Blickwinkel, die Dienstleister. Schöne Ferien. Ich wünschte, ich hätte eine großzügige Mutter wie Sie zurück in den Tag. Die wahre Kosten des Pendelns Es war ein schöner Abend in meiner Nachbarschaft, und ich genoss eine meiner riesigen Homebrews auf einem Liegestuhl, den ich in der Mitte der Straße platziert hatte, Als Teil eines nahen block8217s jährliches Straßen-Party. Ich sprach mit einem Paar, das ich gerade getroffen hatte, und das Thema wandte sich an die Schönheit der Nachbarschaft. 8220Wow, ich didn8217t sogar erkennen, dieses Gebiet war hier8221, sagte der Kerl, 8220It8217s schön und alt und die Bäume sind riesig und alle Familien hängen zusammen draußen, als ob es noch 19508221. 8220Yeah8221, sagte seine Frau, 8220We sollten wirklich bewegen Hier8221. Dann wandte sich die Diskussion an die vergleichsweise erschwingliche Wohnung, und die anderen Vorteile des Lebens in meiner Stadt. Am Ende der Arbeit, diese Menschen wurden verbal erarbeiten die Details eines potenziellen Zug innerhalb von nur wenigen Monaten. Außer ihr Plan war absurd. Weil diese beiden Vollzeit-Berufsarbeiter derzeit zu leben und zu arbeiten in 8220Broomfield8221, eine Stadt, die etwa 19 Meilen und 40 Minuten High-Traffic fahren weg von hier ist zu leben. Sie bürsteten das Potenzial, sagen 8220Oh, 40 Minuten, that8217s nicht allzu schlecht.8221 Ja, eigentlich ist es zu schlecht 8230 Aber dieses Missverständnis darüber, was eine vernünftige pendeln ist wahrscheinlich die größte Sache, die halten die meisten Menschen in den USA und Kanada schlecht. Let8217s nehmen eine typische day8217s Laufwerk für dieses selbstzerstörerische Paar. Hinzufügen von 38 Meilen von Hin-und Rückfahrt auf der IRS8217s Schätzung der Gesamtbetriebskosten von 0,51 pro Meile, there8217s 19 pro Tag der direkten Fahrt und Kfz-Kosten. Es ist möglich, für weniger fahren, aber diese Leute haben ziemlich neue Autos, gekauft auf Kredit, so dass sie die volle Menge verschwenden. Als nächstes ist die tatsächliche menschliche Zeit verschwendet. Bei 80 Minuten pro Tag würde das selbstauferlegte Fahren das Äquivalent von fast einem ganzen Arbeitstag zu jeder Arbeitswoche 8211 addieren, so dass sie jetzt effektiv 6 Tage pro Woche arbeiten würden. Nach zehn Jahren, multipliziert auf zwei Autos, da sie unterschiedliche Arbeitspläne haben, würde diese Entscheidung sie etwa 125.000 in Reichtum Kosten (wenn sie zum Beispiel gewählt, um die 19 Tage in zusätzliche Zahlungen auf ihre Hypothek setzen), und 1,3 Arbeitstage im Wert von Zeit , JEDE, verbrachte ihr Leben täglich hinter dem Lenkrad. JEDE zehn Jahre. Und dass8217s mit einem pendeln, dass die meisten Amerikaner behaupten, ist 8220not too bad8221. You8217ll beachten Sie, dass die meisten 30-jährige Paare heute, etwa 10 Jahre ins Erwachsenenalter, don8217t sogar 125.000 im Nettovermögen. Und sie fahren wahrscheinlich rund um einiges in teure finanzierte Autos, meist als Teil einer selbst auferlegten Pendelverkehr. Diese Tatsachen sind direkt verbunden Die Alternative, die ich diesem Paar empfohlen hätte, wenn sie meine Meinung gefragt hätten, wäre sicherzustellen, dass ihr Haus innerhalb der Radstrecke von beiden Jobs ist. Sofort verkaufen beide geliehenen Autos und ersetzen sie mit einem einzigen zehn Jahre alten Schaltgetriebe Heckklappe, und schließlich, lassen Sie die guten Zeiten rollen. Wenn man 10k beiseitelegt, um das neue Auto auf der Straße zu behalten, wird es nach zehn kurzen Jahren sicherlich auch noch 115.000 Extras geben, und wenn sie diesen Trick mit einigen der anderen MMM-Klassiker kombinieren, Stadt Longmont als EARLY RETIREES innerhalb von zehn Jahren, anstatt gebrochen Lohnsklaven noch pendeln aus hier jeden Morgen, wenn das Jahr 2021 rollt herum. Jetzt werde ich zugeben, dass es möglich ist, Ihre Kosten pro Meile ein wenig zu bringen. That8217s eine meiner eigenen Spezialitäten. Weshalb ich immer noch ein Auto von mir selbst für erschwingliche Familienroadtrips halten. Wenn Sie das richtige Auto für 5.000 kaufen, könnten Sie in der Lage, 100.000 Meilen aus ihm ohne größere Reparaturen squeeze. In diesem Fall ist die Autoabschreibung 5 Cent pro Meile. Gas, bei 3,50 pro 35 Meilen (angenommen 35MPG), ist 10 Centsmile Reifen, bei 300 pro 50,000 Meilen sind 0.6 Cents Öl, bei 25 pro 5.000 Meilen ist 0.5 Cents Verschiedene Sachen wie Wischer und gelegentliche Wartung Besuche: 200 pro 20.000 Meilen 1 Cent Also das ultimative billige Fahren in einem Paid-off-Economy-Auto kostet immerhin mindestens 17 Cent pro Meile. Die meisten Leute können nicht so billig fahren. Und das ignoriert die Kosten der Versicherung seit I8217ll nehmen Sie8217d haben ein Auto, auch wenn Sie didn8217t pendeln zu arbeiten. Die meisten Leute sind bereit, völlig autofrei zu gehen (obwohl, wenn Sie sind, gut für Sie). Neben der Möglichkeit der Auswahl eines Hauses in der Nähe, wo auch immer Ihre Arbeit geschieht, kann es auch die Möglichkeit der Auswahl eines Arbeitsplatzes, die in der Nähe Ihres Hauses in der Stadt Ihrer Träume ist. Holen Sie sich einen neuen Job (Es gibt offensichtlich viele von ihnen hier in meiner eigenen Stadt, viele von Menschen, die in von anderen Orten pendeln, auch während eine gleiche Anzahl von Menschen pendeln aus meiner Stadt zu arbeiten, woanders arbeitete). Trotz der Verfügbarkeit dieser beiden Optionen scheint die Idee, in der Nähe der Arbeit zu leben, nach wie vor für die meisten Menschen, die sie kennen gelernt haben, völlig fremd zu sein. Während ich persönlich betrachten würde es viel wichtiger als sogar das Gehalt oder die Arbeit, die meisten Menschen pendeln Abstand unter dem Hauspreis, empfunden Schule Qualität und Nachbarschaft Präferenz. Mit solch einem niedrigen Schwellenwert auf Pendeln platziert, die meisten Menschen don8217t sogar eine vernünftige Anstrengung in die Schaffung eines schönen lokalen Lebensstil für sich. Wie Sie mit dem Paar in meinem Beispiel oben gesehen haben. Sie waren bereit, aus ihrer bestehenden vernachlässigbaren pendeln, zu einem Insane Asylum 80 Minuten Rundfahrt, nur weil sie die malerische und nachbarschaftliche Vibe meiner Nachbarschaft mochte zu gehen. 8220Schools8221 werden oft als eine Entschuldigung als gut, aber bis you8217ve überprüft jede Nah-zu-Arbeit-Schule persönlich und interviewte der Direktor, könnten Sie machen eine ziemlich schlechte Kompromiss für Ihre Kinder. What8217s besser 8211 höhere standardisierte Testergebnisse und mehr reiche Kinder oder reale Weltvielfalt und ein Extra zwei Stunden, um mit Mamma und Vati jeden Tag zu verbringen, Bücher zu lesen Und wie über ein Extra 300 großartig oder so gegen den Hochschulfonds, dass Sie didn8217t brennen Up in Autos und Gas während ihrer Schullaufbahn Um die Dinge wieder auf par, let8217s Peitsche ein paar schnelle Pendeln Gleichungen. Let8217s nehmen die durchschnittliche Person8217s marginalen Fahrkosten ist auf halbem Weg zwischen der Ultra-Mustachian Fahrer Figur von 17 Cent pro Meile und Uncle Sam8217s großzügige 51 Cent Zulage. Also, 34 Cent. Let8217s auch davon ausgehen, der Wert einer Person8217s Zeit ist 25 pro Stunde, da dies in der Nähe von einem mittleren Lohn für eine suburbane Pendler. (Wenn Sie don8217t denken Sie8217d verwenden Sie Ihre neue Freizeit, die produktiv, müssen Sie mehr wie ein Early Rentner denken. Ich habe meine für viel Lernen und inländischen Insourcing). Für jede Meile fahren Sie zweimal auf Ihrer Hin-und Rückfahrt, um täglich zu arbeiten, es multipliziert mit 500 Meilen pro Jahr oder eine 170 jährliche Gebühr für jeden dieser Meilen, vergeuden Sie etwa 6 Minuten auf der Hin-und Rückfahrt, Hinzufügen von 25 Stunden pro Jahr (625 Ihrer Zeit). Also jede Meile Sie leben von der Arbeit stiehlt 795 pro Jahr von Ihnen in Pendeln Kosten. 795 pro Jahr zahlt die Zinsen auf 15.900 des Hauses ausgeliehen zu einem 5-Zinssatz. Mit anderen Worten, eine logische Person sollte bereit sein, etwa 15.900 mehr für ein Haus zu zahlen, das eine Meile näher an der Arbeit ist, und 477.000 mehr für ein Haus, das 30 Meilen näher an der Arbeit ist. Für ein Paar mit zwei Pendeln sind diese Zahlen 31.800 und 954.000. Anpassung der Zahlen für eine 7,50 Mindestlohnverdiener, jede Meile von Pkw-Pendelschnitte 1,43 von Ihrem Arbeitstag. Wenn Sie 10 Meilen fahren, um eine 5-stündige Verschiebung am Outback-Restaurant zu gehen, ist Ihr effektiver Stundenlohn mehr wie 5 pro Stunde nach Abzug der Autokosten und Hinzufügen der Antriebszeit. Und das sind alle Zahlen für die USA, wo Autos und Benzin viel, viel billiger sind als in fast jedem anderen Land. In Kanada können Sie 30 zu den Gaspreisen und 50 zu den Autopreisen hinzufügen. In Großbritannien noch mehr. Wenn diese Zahlen lächerlich klingen, dann sind sie es. Es ist lächerlich, mit dem Auto pendeln, um zu arbeiten, wenn Sie erkennen, wie teuer es ist zu fahren, und wenn Sie Ihre Zeit auf etwas in der Nähe, was Sie bezahlt. Ich habe diese Berechnungen lange vor dem Erhalten meiner ersten Arbeit, und wegen ihnen habe ich nie bereit gewesen, irgendwo zu leben, die mich benötigte, um mich zur Arbeit zu fahren. It8217s einfach zu teuer, und es gibt immer eine andere Option bei der Auswahl eines Jobs und ein Haus, wenn Sie es eine Priorität. Und machen diese einfache Wahl ist wahrscheinlich die größte einzelne Erhöhung, die die durchschnittliche Person von Armut zu finanzieller Unabhängigkeit über einen angemessenen Zeitraum zu bekommen. Ich würde sagen, dass Biken mehr und treibend weniger war der Auslöser in meinem eigenen Leben, die eine Kettenreaktion von Ersparnissen und glücklichen Lebensstil änderungen, die meine Frau und ich in den Ruhestand führte in unseren frühen 30er Jahren begann. Nun, all dies doesn8217t bedeuten, müssen Sie ein Zelt auf Ihrem Arbeitgeber8217s vor Rasen zu vermeiden gehen pleite. Öffentliche Verkehrsmittel, obwohl ein Nachdenken in den meisten der USA, ist groß, wenn es Ihnen zur Verfügung steht, weil Sie Ihr Gehirn und Ihre Hände zurück zum Zweck bekommen einige Ihrer day8217s Arbeit erledigt während unterwegs. Aber wenn Sie zu Fuß oder mit dem Fahrrad zur Arbeit, es kostet Sie praktisch nichts. Und es auch doesn8217t zählen, wie die Nutzung Ihrer persönlichen Zeit, weil es etwas, dass niemand außer Olympia-Athleten ist genug von sowieso 8211 Übung hinzufügen. Sie können Ihre Zeit mit dem Fahrrad fahren direkt aus der Zeit, die Sie sonst in der Turnhalle verbracht haben, oder warten in der Arztpraxis für verschreibungspflichtige Medikamente. So there8217s meine Antwort für dieses mögliche neue Set von Nachbarn. I8217ll sehen Sie in zehn Jahren Und jetzt, da die Wahrheit endlich über die Torheit des Pendelns geoffenbart worden ist, freue ich mich, über die leeren Zwischenstaatlichen und Fahrrad-gefüllten Straßen morgen früh zu lesen. Beachten Sie, dass ich dieses ganze Geschrei geschrieben habe, ohne dass diese ganze nervtötende 8220destroying die gesamte Earth8221 Ausgabe, da dieser Teil ist umstritten in den Vereinigten Staaten. So dass ich dachte es8217s am besten, nur um auf Sie reich zu konzentrieren :-) Für die Aufzeichnung, wuchs ich in der Great Lakes Bereich, auf der kanadischen Seite etwa 1 Stunde Northwest of Buffalo, NY. Dann verbrachte ich ein paar Jahre in einem Gebiet viel kälter 8211 Ottawa, Kanada, mit einem Klima etwas schlechter als Minneapolis, MN. Bike ganzjährig unter diesen Bedingungen war völlig machbar (und sogar Spaß), und I8217ll einen Beitrag, wie zu genießen Winter Bike Pendeln noch in diesem Herbst Auch für die Aufzeichnung, meine Frau und ich noch Fahrrad ganzjährig hier in Colorado, einschließlich Zum Einkaufen und Ablegen unserer Kindergartener in der Schule 8211 dank der Magie der Fahrradanhänger. Führen Sie eine Suche auf Ihrer lokalen Craigslist und ändern Sie Ihr Fahrradleben. Das könnte dir auch gefallen: Man, du solltest mein Büro besuchen. Die Leute glauben, ich liebe es, weil ich kaufte ein kleines Haus 3 Meilen von der Arbeit und fahren mein Fahrrad jeden Tag. Für mich war es eine der logischsten und berechneten Entscheidungen meines Lebens, für sie war es verrückt. Ich lebe und arbeite in Colorado Springs. Hier sind einige Beispiele für echte Menschen in meinem Büro: Person 1: Fahren eine F250 von Castle Rock (38 Meilen pro Strecke) 5 Tage die Woche. Der Grund: weil man ein schönes Haus zu einem vernünftigen Preis bekommen kann und weil es auf halbem Weg zwischen den Quellen und Denver so, wenn er entlassen wird hat er 2 Märkte zu berücksichtigen. Think he8217s run the math (He also spends 1000month on groceries and lives paycheck to paycheck, despite having the same position as me) Person 2: Drives 75 miles each way, 5 days a week. He lives north of Denver. He gets to the office at 8am and leaves at 6pm to avoid traffic. But the commute is apparently not bad because 8220it8217s mindless driving.8221 I stopped listening after this. Person 3: Strongly encouraged me to buy a house in Monument, about 12miles north of our office. The commute, he says, is easy and the houses are much bigger. 8220You can get a 3500 square foot house for just 400K8221 according to him. I told him I didn8217t have a car and didn8217t want a house that big, and he stared at me like I was crazy. That8217s OK, he8217s 60 and still works 60 hours per week in a cubicle, so I8217m OK with him thinking I8217m crazy. If only everyone read MMM. ) MMM October 6, 2011, 9:51 am Wow, those are great illustrations, Brave. There are poor fools like that in every single office nationwide. I especially liked Person 3, because I seem to remember Colorado Springs having fairly affordable housing. I just checked Realtor, and searched for 3500 square foot houses under 400k. They are available all over the city The only shortage he8217d find would be in nice older areas, since we didn8217t make houses that big back in the old days. But you more than make up for it, because even you get to spend more time walking outside (infinite square feet) instead of locked in your car (25 square feet). Scott October 20, 2014, 2:45 pm I agree with what you are saying about commuting. It eats the whole world one mile at a time. I think there is one item you are leaving out of the calculation though. Selling real estate. Change jobs every three years, and turn over your 200K house for one closer to work, and the real estate agent8217s fees (6) and mortgage fees (2 if you shop) will more than cover the cost of my expensive commute (2500yr, not counting lost time). I have sold a home by owner, and wouldn8217t flinch at buying one, but its a seems a serious impediment to the average buyer. They think the agent somehow protects them from things going wrong, and are reluctant to go for a non-agent represented transaction. Since you have done many home transactions, any advice on marketing 8220by owner8221 sales Finding a job already close to home is a great proposition, but tough to do once you get above a certain job and income level. After a six month search while employed, the offers I got near home were at 34 of my current salary rending out a 30K annual reduction in income. Also not a whine, just a great problem to have that there are few positions in any metro or surrounding area at my level and pay rate so the openings tended to be one or two steps down or just not close to where I already have a home. No complainy pants here I do all my own home and auto service work. I don8217t have cable, a tv, credit cards, or any cars or toys on credit. I have a good sized house that8217s not well constructed, but have squeezed my energy costs without being uncomfortable winter or summer. Maybe I could just use a different perspective on choosing between a rock and another rock for my income level versus commute. Hey Scott, that8217s a pretty interesting dilemma. I think if I were in 8220high-powered mercenary8221 career mode (which I might define as switching jobs more often than every 5 years), I8217d go for high quality rentals instead of owning homes. Of course, this only applies for the type of job where you have to show up in an office or jobsite every day 8211 many of them let you work remotely these days, which is another thing to seek out. The good news is that if you pursue financial independence quickly, this all becomes irrelevant within two or three job cycles, as once you have enough to retire, you can continue to take jobs you love, but be very selective about location and you won8217t care about salary at all. I still do occasional carpentry work, for example, but nothing outside of wheelbarrow range from my house. so I have a radius of about 4 blocks :-) Scott January 4, 2017, 10:54 pm My wife and I did the white suburban picket fence thing. Great while I worked in town but after my layoff my new job was half way across toronto. 6 months later (400mth toll hwy, 475mth car financing, 175mth insurance, 400mth gas) I sold the house and moved back downtown. Neither of us drive now and saving thousands. jill February 25, 2015, 1:32 am I wish I had read this before I accepted a job 40 miles away 19 years ago. I am a school librarian. I had just finished my MLS degree at age 28 and had been working for a little over minimum wage at a all-girls Catholic High School closer to home. Even back then, positions were hard to find for someone lacking connections. I worked a year then took a year off with my son. Thanks to frugal living in a small condominium in a cheap city, I was able to work part-time for 5 years. Then we made the bad decision to build a 1,500 square foot house and I returned to work full-time. Looking back, I should never agreed to return and should have waited for a closer job. With the new house, my commute was a tiny bit further. I spent at least 10-12 hours each week in the car. Traffic has gotten worse over the years and there were horrific periods of construction. Seems like at least twice a week or more, there is some type of accident that causes delays. I almost been hit many times and have witnessed 2 SUVs flipping over due to driving at high speeds. Both my husband and my mother-in-law insist that commuting is 8220no big deal8221 and that I am 8220just sitting in the car8221. My husband also said that he since my actual workday is a bit shorter than his, I am lucky anyhow. I work at least 8 hours a day. I leave at 6:30 and come home at 4:30 or 5:00. When I fist started my district had 15 media specialist but as our budgets have shrunk, there are 3 of us left. I figure I have at the most 4-5 years of this career before we are phased out completely. (Of course, Kent State is still telling people there are jobs but that would be for another post). I am 46 years old and love my job. Our libraries circulate 50,000 itemsmonth 8211 some kids come everyday I love teaching literature lessonstech. and I love helping the kids find good books. TPTB say now that we have ipads, we won8217t need books. We do buy medium-sized cars usually a year or 2 old and drive them until they die. However, I know when this job ends, there is no way I am commuting more than 15-20 minutes from my house and I don8217t ever want to be forced to take the highway. I feel extremely burned out. I have some health issues (autoimmune issues and back issues). Of course, the commuting has not helped. My husband and I live relatively frugal compared to our peers so if we are able to keep this up, I should be able to tutor or substitute teach when my job is phased out. My state just upped the teacher retirement age to 65 and we pay 14 of our salary towards it. The old-timers could retire with better benefits at age 52 and put in 5-6 towards retirement. So I see the handwriting on the wall and I am not going to count on what they promise. Thank you for providing this article 8211 I am going to share it with my husband. We In 2000, we moved clear cross country so my wife could accept a 8220big opportunity position8221 and a big raise. You guessed it, we ended up buying a house some 40 miles away 8212 like you 8212 from her job in order to be able to afford the house. Never mind the financial cost of the driving. It very quickly became an emotionally draining. life sucking nightmare for my wife. On bad days, the 40 miles would take an hour and a half to do. In winter conditions, the stress was insane. Night after night, my wife would arrive at our house fit to be tied. And half the time she took it out on me. () Long story short, we ended up deciding to have her RENT AN APARTMENT near her job, where she stayed during the week and then came 8220home8221 for weekends. And there went a big chunk of her big pay raise. NUTS Thank goodness that8217s all behind us now. We sold that house, she landed a telecommuting position in her professional field, and we moved to a rural small town where our new house cost us 40 less than the one we sold. And8230 the move helped change our finances enough to pull the trigger and FIRE. It8217s all good now. But I8217m here to echo your sentiments. Whatever one can do to avoid or get away from the commuting, must be done. renn May 5, 2015, 4:37 pm I commuted to a job 46 miles from my home for 15 years. The commute began as a 45 minute trip. Thanks to construction, more people moving to the area and an influx of jobs, that commute became an average of 90 minutes EACH WAY. I would arrive at work before 8 am and home around 6 pm. I was constantly exhausted and stressed out. I was downsized 6 weeks ago. Thanks to an excellent severance package, I have spent that time reading, resting and looking for a job in this area. While I don8217t WANT to take a pay cut, I can feasibly make at least 6K less than I had been making. That8217s about what I was paying out for gas (approx 100week or more), tires at LEAST every year, oil changes every 5 weeks, insurance and general wear and tear on the vehicle. I own the car free and clear, so there8217s no car payment. We also own our house and don8217t plan to move at this time. JM November 9, 2014, 10:02 am Great blog post 3 years ago I moved from a large home that was 8220only8221 15 miles (which is half the distance of what most of my coworkers drive ) from the downtown core to a fixer upper home half the size and 1.1 miles away from the core. My entire life has improved exponentially it was by far the best financial decision I ever made. Not only has appreciation been stronger in my new home, but shaving 70 minutes off my daily rush hour commute has given me back nearly 300 hours of free time annually. That8217s equivalent to 37 full work days a year. That8217s nearly 2 months at the office. Insane. There is another great analysis done on the Fatwallet forums here 8211 fatwalletforumsfinance1384544start0 I like it because it separates the cost of car ownership from costs related to driving only. I don8217t ever plan on giving up my car so it was more applicable to me. Thanks again for the great post Mankhool October 10, 2011, 6:07 pm I8217m so happy to learn that I8217m not the only person who thinks this way, and who also thinks that everyone else is crazy. My mantra has always been, 8220Live close to where you work or work close to where you live8221. It8217s that simple. Even if you have children it8217s that simple. The cost of operating a vehicle is one part of the equation. The other part of the equation is that YOUR time is valuable. Calculate the number of hours per week that you spend commuting and multiply by your hourly rate to find out how much more your commute is costing you, in addition to the vehicle. In a few years time I will be able to buy a condo on the same city block where I work. My commute time will be measured in SECONDS. Thank you MMM I8217ve just discovered you blog via Hacker News. I never understood the importance of living close to work until my husband and I lived abroad for a year. We found a place that was 10 minutes from our elevator bank to his workplace elevator bank. There were times when I would bring him a home cooked meal or we would meet up to try a new restaurant. And many times he would come home for afternoon naps as he was working 90 hours a week8230no exaggeration. The only con is that usually living close to work would usually cost double what you would pay in housing especially if one lives in a major city. Gary November 9, 2014, 9:51 pm In my previous job, I rode my bike 4 miles each way to work. It was fun, even in the winter. As a result, I ended up losing about 15 to 20 pounds in just my first year. Now I live only a mile away from my current job, and I walk to work each day. I find walking and riding to work a great way to relax burn off the stress of the day, and I think the key to making this walkride into work a routine is having good rain gear and water proof shoes. euclid January 10, 2016, 8:41 am you dont want everyone reading MMM. that would make it harder for the clever ones. the premium on real estate closer to cities would increase and the further out areas more heavily discounted. also with all the clever people retiring early doing part time handy work, we need a lot of peope working through their 60s. One of the most interesting articles MMM ever wrote was 8220what if everyone was frugal8221. While the short-term correction of everyone spending less and investing more might mean stocks fall and people panic because less people are working until 60, the long-term prospects are pretty bright. We would have a lot more investment in automation, we would waste less as a species, and while people might work less they probably will continue to do something productive in their early retirement. Hopefully society slowly gets more frugal and slowly consumes less and we get to a Mustachian Utopia soon. GardenGal October 6, 2011, 7:02 am Nice post Since I work from home, I can8217t even seeing showering and dressing for work, much less spending the money to drive to work, so I absolutely understand other timeenergy costs of commuting. Are there naked people on bikes in the one photo that goes with your blogpost or are my eyes seeing something that is not there BeyondtheWrap October 6, 2011, 8:50 am Dwight October 6, 2011, 7:07 am I once read an article that calculated the average speed of a car. Add up the time spent in your car and time spent working to pay for automotive expenses. Divide this number into the number of miles driven. You get seven miles per hour in a car. That8217s slower than a bicycle. According to my math, it was 4.7MPH in a car. shanoboy October 7, 2011, 7:21 am Ha, sounds about right for most of us who commute in and around Atlanta. zero3blur October 6, 2011, 7:30 am Great article, as usual. -) I was wondering if you factored in the cost of speeding I know too many people who bought fuel-efficient cars and routinely: 1. drive 10-15 mph faster than the speed limit 2. complain that they8217re not getting the mileage promised ( 55mph 8211 65mph, highway, in my state) Weston October 6, 2011, 7:31 am We tried to do this. We really did. We rented a house very near my work several years ago. It wasn8217t biking distance but it was a commute of only 10 minutes as opposed to the 25 minutes I have now and the 50 minute commute I had before we moved to the rental. We tried to buy a house in that neighborhood. There were probably half a dozen reasons why we couldn8217t. Part of it was price. Part of it was anticipated repairs. Part of it was the increased cost of real estate taxes and property insurance. But the real deal breaker for us was education. We had 4 kids at home at that time. Even the real estate agents who were trying to sell us homes in that area acknowledged that the nearby public schools were below par (and in some opinions unsafe). My wife (who is herself a public school teacher) pored over the statistics and we really could not come to any conclusion other than to move to a suburban area with far superior schools. We do not like the stress and expense of my commute (and my wife8217s former commute) but we could not justify putting our children8217s education (and possibly safety) at risk. MMM October 6, 2011, 9:08 am An easy bike commute can cover over 8 miles each way. If you place your workplace at the center of a circle with an 8 mile radius, you have an area of 201 square miles, or about 128 THOUSAND ACRES in which to find a reasonable house and school. And that8217s just one potential employer. If you live in a city where there isn8217t a single suitable job with a single non-gang-ridden-shoot-em-up school within the surrounding 128,000 acre region, you need to find a new city. Am I suggesting that we carefully choose our jobs, schools, and even our city of residence, just to avoid car commuting Yes I am. Weston October 6, 2011, 10:13 am Well considering that the area in question was a quarter mile from the Atlantic, about half of the 8 mile radius you describe would leave us mighty soggy. We tried to find a different city. Because of licensing restrictions both my wife and I had to remain in the state unless we wanted to go through substantial effort and expense to be relicensed elsewhere. The few job offers we got elsewhere in the state were at substantially reduced salaries. Factoring in moving expenses, plus the time and money that we would have to spend visiting close family members who also lived in this area, we just didn8217t get job offers that made financial sense even though it would result in reduced commuter time and expenses. Funny thing is that 9 years later my eldest daughter bought a small house in the same general area we had rented in. She has a five minute commute but she and her husband are going broke from house repairs, house payments, property taxes, property insurance and private school tuition to make sure that their kids get a good education. I can8217t say I8217ve run the numbers but I imagine she would have to bike for many, many miles in order to make up the difference. We all make sacrifices to one extent or the other. I hate my commute but I would much rather put up with the 25 minute commute in order to avoid the crushing debt load that would have occurred if I wanted to live in a safe area in my city, with decent schools and a reasonable bike ride to my office (where I would also have to join a health club in order to shower and change into my suit after biking to work) MMM October 6, 2011, 10:37 am I still like your example, Weston, because it shows you put some pretty solid effort into avoiding a long commute 8211 but just couldn8217t make it work in the end. If all of today8217s commuters put their decisions up to a similarly high threshold, we could surely cut down annual miles driven in this country by at least half. On the positive side, since your job is fancy enough to involve suits and licenses, it is probably high-paying enough to allow you to retire decades before most people, bringing your average commute back down as you age. Also as a note for other business workers 8211 a fit person does not need to shower between biking a few miles and working, just as you don8217t need to shower from the effort expended by walking from your car into your office. Riding a bike is not an insane physical trial where you come out dripping with sweat and smelling like a hog. It8217s about as hard as walking, but you have more wind to cool you down as you go. I8217ve even ridden a bike in a suit and tie (to a wedding, since there aren8217t many formalwear jobs in high-tech). With a velcro strap to hold the floppy pant legs out of the chain, it8217s perfectly comfortable. and you tend to get a few whistles from the ladies as well 8211 every girl8217s crazy for a Sharp Dressed Man8230 MMM, I8217d say this depends heavily on what part of the country you live in, average temperatures, etc. Oh, and don8217t forget to factor in how hilly the ride is. I don8217t know anyone who can bike uphill for 8 miles without breaking a sweat8230 especially in humid, 80-degree weather. MMM October 6, 2011, 11:29 am Well, you know one now Just this past Tuesday, I rode 13 miles uphill (and then another 13 miles back out of the foothills to return to my house), and I wasn8217t even sweaty enough to need a shower aftewards. I just checked the weather history for that day 8211 the high was 84 degrees F And I8217m not an unusually fit person compared to most road bikers. It8217s true that adding in humidity will make you sweat more, but meh, wear some good deodorant, then change your T-shirt when you get to the nice air-conditioned office. Showering at work is good for reducing your own hot water bills, but not necessary for most people who bike to work. Joe Average November 17, 2014, 11:20 am Gave this a shot a while back and I was unfit to be at work after my bike ride. Its hot, hilly and humid here (TN) in the summer. One alternative that I explored but did not spent any money on yet was a powered bicycle that has the effect of flattening the hills out. Still have to pedal. Our solution is a 7.5 mile commute in a 15 year old, nearly 300K mile Honda CR-V five speed. My wife and I carpool every day. Took a long time to find employment so near each other. Our big city friends are a little confused by our attachment to this small town but it works for us. Short distances. Safe. Nice schools. The only challenege (and an easy one) is entertaing ourselves on the weekends. This has been improving for a long time with free park concerts (local bands), local plays, hiking, walking, cookouts, etc. Look for small cities and large towns. Not a place where six figure incomes are common though. Weston October 6, 2011, 12:22 pm 8220Riding a bike is not an insane physical trial where you come out dripping with sweat and smelling like a hog.8221 Probably true for most, and I certainly wish it was true for me. No matter how fit I may be at that particular period all it takes is the slightest exertion and I start sweating like a pig. Think it is a genetic thing. I recall my father being the same way, and one of my daughters also sweats profusely with minimal exertion. Uncephalized June 11, 2012, 12:22 pm Same here. I sweat like a horse during even moderate exercise, and even when it is cold outside. I blame it on being brought up in Arizona where you NEED overactive sweat glands to avoid heat stroke. -) Josh September 16, 2014, 6:41 am Just for the record: In my area, a good number of the higher-paying tech jobs require, at minimum, a long-sleeve shirt and tie. A smaller, but still significant, number require a suit. This is for most IT jobs paying over 50,000 around here. Rick September 16, 2014, 9:50 am I bike commute 3 miles each way to my suit-and-tie job. I sweat a ton, due to a combination of a humid climate, active sweat glands, and enjoying a fast ride. I usually shower when I get home at night. My solution for arriving at work sweaty Wear biking clothes, clean up with baby wipes, then change into work clothes. I agree with most of your topics, but I have to disagree with you on this post, at least for my situation. I would hate living in a major city (too much traffic, no yard, no garage, etc.), but I have a job that is difficult to find in a surrounding city. If I do find one, it8217s about 10k less than what I8217m currently getting paid. I drive 60 miles per day (30 miles each way). I figured up my annual expenses, using the formula you have (but tweaked for my specific situation), and it costs me 1866.75 per year for driving expenses. I would rather pay the 1867year to live where I do instead of right in the middle of the city. It would also cost me more to live in that area, which I wouldn8217t enjoy. For me, it8217s well worth the 1867year to live in an area that I enjoy as opposed to the city. Once I retire, I8217ll have a much more enjoyable life, without having to incur the costs of moving either. For the record, I drive a 14 year old manual transmission Honda Civic with 191K miles on it, and I average 37 mpg. I plan on keeping it as long as it stays reliable for me (I8217m hoping another 100K miles). MMM October 6, 2011, 8:57 am Hmm. I dunno J. D. Your 1867 cost is assuming 12.7 cents per mile for your INSANE 15,000 mile per year commuting habit. If I put this even to my own minimum of 17 cents per mile (which is still improbably optimistic and assumes you will never have any sort of car accident or ticket in your life), the annual figure is 2550. You8217re doing this to get a 10k increase in your paycheck, which is perhaps 8000 at your marginal tax rate. That leaves 5450 of net 8220profit8221 which you earn for about 500 hours per year of driving. You8217re earning 10.90 an hour for missing out what could be the most productive time of your life 8211 time spent not working. Even more importantly, if you start with the premise that a car commute is NOT an option, as I8217m advocating, you will find that new avenues for a happy local life magically appear to your newly opened mind. You8217ll find the nice neighborhood close to your job, or the nice job close to your house, or the nice city where work and homes are close together (see 8220the joy of moving to a better place8221). Look at Brave New World8217s comment above. Because his coworkers did not start with this premise, they quickly brushed off his idea of living close to work, and set themselves up with ridiculous commutes. This mindset has made them poor, while he and Mr. Money Mustache became millionaires. Joe Average February 13, 2015, 12:12 pm Yeah but if living in the city leads to spending more money to find rest and relaxation (bc there is no personal outside space for gardens or building something) then you are spending money for entertainment. Aaron September 15, 2015, 7:17 am I live in NYC and get pretty mustachian about entertainment expenses. Sure this city has the option to spend ridiculous amounts on whatever you can dream of, but there8217s a ton of stuff to do for free. The public libraries are top notch and beautify. There8217s enormous parks scattered around the 5 boroughs. Most of the museums are 8220pay what you can afford8221 with a suggested donation listed. I8217ve never lived in a city that didn8217t have a community garden if that8217s the only thing that will bring you peace, and 2 of my NY apartments have had patio or roof top space to indulge my green thumb. Oh, and I8217ve built all sorts of things in my tiny apartment. Kevin October 6, 2011, 8:32 am Don8217t forget folks who (like me) walk to the train station, take the train into a big city, and then walk to my office. No cars involved. The only cost of the commute is in my time, which 8211 you8217re right 8211 is substantial. But my job provides me with an iPhone hotspot, so I can get online and work from the train. MMM October 6, 2011, 10:11 am Working on the train is pretty useful 8211 you can get that whole morning email catch-up session done undisturbed A seasoned worker will even be able to count this as part of their 8-hour workday (I get on the train at 8, which means my workday ends at 4, which means I leave the office at 3:30). DJ October 11, 2011, 7:18 am I LOVE taking the train into town every day. It8217s so relaxing I can listen to music and watch the world go by, daydreaming, or I can read a book or do my readings for school (although sometimes that makes be a bit dizzy). I would much rather commute on the train and relax then stress out on the freeway. Especially in the winter. Plus, our commuter trains are fairly clean and have some decent bathrooms just in case. DJ October 11, 2011, 7:16 am 8220The only cost of the commute is in my time82308221 Uh, do you get to use the train for free I don8217t drive, never had my license, in my early 30s. I have no real intention of getting my license, despite everyone bugging me to do so. It just doesn8217t make sense to me. I don8217t own a car and probably never will, unless I moved out to the boonies (very unlikely). I8217m not in the city, either, I live in the suburbs and commute downtown (by bus, train, then subway). It8217s actually extremely expensive (probably about 400month for non-students, roughly 300month for me as a Grad student) but it8217s still cheaper than owning and maintaining a car, not to mention parking that would cost as much or more than my commute costs. I figure eventually I8217ll move into the city when I8217m back in the workforce (I hope) upon graduation, anyways. And trust me, there is no sane reason to be driving in downtown Toronto. Kira August 11, 2014, 5:43 pm Some employers pay up to a designated amount of public transportation costs, but I8217ve found that it8217s not always well communicated. Anyone working for a large company should at least find out what kind of incentives the company offers. In my current scenario, public transportation would take longer and I would incur more childcare costs that would negate the transportation savings (not to mention cutting into family bonding time). Jenny September 7, 2014, 5:17 am Even if your employer doesn8217t pay for transit per say you may have a transit FSA where you can pay for your bustrain pass pre-tax which reduces the total cost. In my city a rush hour transit pass cost 96 but because of a discount when I order it through my transit FSA it is only 76 after tax it cost about 50 per month. Since I don8217t have a car I use it frequently outside of work as well. Stashette October 6, 2011, 8:52 am I8217m crying a bit inside because you just described my commute821120 miles and 40 minutes. It8217s especially bad in winter weather when I am essentially working a 12 hour day when you factor in my commute. Even though some people would consider this reasonable, it has really gotten old. I agree that something needs to change, because I hate throwing money away on gas and car expenses. MMM October 6, 2011, 10:24 am I8217m glad to hear it The point of this article was to shake at least a few people out of their complacency. Obviously I8217m not going to convince everyone, but I figured by pointing out the Emperor8217s-New-Clothes nature of the insanely low threshold MOST people have before signing themselves up for a commute, we could at least save a few from Suckerhood. Stashette October 6, 2011, 1:11 pm I just calculated the cost for my specific situation and the cost comes to about 5000 a year plus the obscene amount of time wasted when you use my hourly wage (10,000 using 25hr) Crazy What8217s even crazier is trying to find time for a bike ride AFTER I get home from my long commute. You talked about paying more for a house closer to your work, but it seems the opposite would be true as well8211settling for a lower salary for a job closer to your house. The Mister already has a job close to home. jforest October 6, 2011, 8:56 am I have no car, and live riiight at the end of the subway lines. My rent is 1100 a month (big city of boston after all) for about 800sq feet of space. My subway pass is subsidized by work, so i only pay 29.50 a month (PRE TAX TOO) The big problem is, it8217s about 7 miles from my house to work, through the busy city center, and it takes about an hour for me to take the subway. So biking might be better, but I live in the northeast, so winter will quickly crush that attempt. (plus 7 miles throught a big city with no bike lanes doesn8217t sound fun) Finding an apartment near to work is something I8217m working on, but rents shoot up dramatically. There are some very bad areas south of work, so I need to be careful where I look. I would love to save the 2 hours a day of my life to dedicate to my family, but at this point, doubling rent costs to save 10 hours a week (40 a month) is tough to swallow, and will push my retirement off many many years. MMM October 6, 2011, 9:24 am Nice dilemma Why don8217t you send us your approximate start and end destinations (nearby cross-streets) and we can see if we can find a reasonable bike route Boston has a strong bike community, which usually means there are good roads and paths hidden in amongst the bad. 7 miles could take you less than 30 minutes on a bike (I used to average 26 mins for my 8-mile bike commute back in the day). And Boston has balmy summery winters compared to where I grew up and rode year-round. Even if you rule out the snowy and rainy days, you can still do well over half of your commuting by bike. Alternatively, 40 hours of subway commuting per month in order to save 1100 per month could still be a reasonable trade because you8217re earning over 25hour after tax for the subway slavery. But it depends on how much you are getting paid, and how much you would love to have time with your family. Continuing to shop around for apartments, as well as jobs and even home cities in the long run, seems like a good plan. jforest October 6, 2011, 9:44 am Well here is the google maps version, says 10.1 miles :) That8217s a pretty hefty commute to start biking. I may have to give it a test run or two, just to try it out, but I8217m not in any sort of 8220GOOD8221 shape right now8230 upside, it would fix that, and quick What do people think of a 10 mile bike commute, is that pretty standard MMM October 6, 2011, 10:05 am Cool What a nice bike ride, you get to cross HarvardMIT, a couple of bridges, and a load of Boston parks. Note that Google Bike directions will often disregard perfectly bikeable roads and give you an unnecessarily long route. I8217d start by experimenting with more direct routes (when I drag around on your map I can get it down to about 8.5 miles). And adjust as needed. There are nearly infinite possibilities by bike with a commute like that. You could start with 1 day a week, or even going 1 way and carrying the bike onto the subway for the ride home if that is allowed. If you are not already in good shape, then the extra fitness you gain from even cracking into this bike ride will change your entire life for the better. Seriously 8211 bike riding is like the fountain of youth. jforest October 6, 2011, 12:49 pm Well, I just joined the gym at work a few weeks ago (very non-mustachian) it8217s only 40 bucks a month8230. So at least there is a shower for me to use when I get to work if I need it. I think I8217ll pick a nice sunny looking day next week to try it out, I can do one way, and then just take the T back home, but you can8217t bring full sized bikes on the T during rush hour, so I8217ll skew my shift a bit that day. Maybe if I feel fiesty I8217ll ride back home too. First things first, I gotta give my bike a once over. Any good basic bike mechanic websitehowto you guys can point me to Ryan April 22, 2012, 9:43 pm I8217ve got to say, I8217m a bike commuter in Boston (5 mi each way) and that commute from Malden to the Fenway area would be a real bear. In Boston it8217s easy to go along the spokes of the wheel (inout of the city) but much harder to travel NS. If you don8217t take busy roads like rte 16 (unbikeable) then you end up going back and forth on a lot of side streets with lots of turns and lights. And Somerville is full of one-way NS streets in order to make it inconvenient for cars to cut through neighborhoods. My very very straight 5 mi. EastWest commute to Cambridge still takes 25 minutes, so I highly doubt MMM could do 8 mi in 25 minutes in Boston. But there are probably affordable places to rent closer to your office which are bikeable, if you keep looking. A 10 mile bike ride isn8217t that bad. Once you get used to doing it every day, it8217ll be second nature. Maybe ride on the weekends for a bit and see how far you can ride until you can make it work for you if you8217re out of shape. For me, the 15-20 mile range gets a little far. Mike October 6, 2011, 11:40 am While I can8217t argue with the math, I will argue that a 10 mile bike ride in winter in MN (which can last 5 months) can be bad if not irrational8230.. Fig Newton January 20, 2013, 8:38 pm My 25km (15.5 mile) commute takes about an hour each way (depending on wind). It8217s a pretty hilly ride at 150m elevation gain (492 feet) and poops me out by the end of the week. 10 miles would take 40-50 minutes at a leisurely pace and could be done in 30 minutes at 20mph (doable once you8217re in shape). As far as winter riding goes, there are no bad riding days, just bad equipment. I livework near Toronto and it gets cold and nasty, so I got a winter-beater mtb with knobby tires that have a good centre line for rolling resistance. My clothing stops the wind with some insulation layers for warmth. Take care of the feet and hands and you8217re good. The local news even did a story about me when I did a season of commuting on my penny farthing (for fun, charity, and cost savings) cnnvideovideoliving20110603dntmuting. big. wheel. CHCH Wow, Fig A 25km year-round commute in my homeland of Ontario is VERY badass 8211 congratulations Paul November 25, 2016, 10:54 am Hey guys8230 I live 25 kms from my office. One year ago I started a drive walk combo and then in April switched out to biking (first timer). I am 55 and live in Ottawa. In one year I8217ve walkedbiked 5250kms (equivalent of NYC to LA and then LV)8230 lost 10 lbs and saved 7000 pre-tax dollars on gas, wear n tear and 14 a day to park. My employer has a bike room, lockers and showers. Life is good. Bullseye January 21, 2013, 9:25 am Sounds like you8217re on or near my commute route I8217m in Burlington as well. I ride from ApplebyDundas to TrafalgarLakeshore (15km), along Rebecca st. Seen a few other guys out there in the morning who are obviously commuters, maybe you are one of them Fig Newton January 21, 2013, 9:24 pm I start at 7-ish in the morning and start home at 3pm. It8217s entirely possible I run into you as I ride Rebecca St from Burloak to Dorval. I8217m usually wearing a yellow safety vest and have my GPS, light, and music system blasting from my home made 8220Gear Tree.8221 Bullseye January 22, 2013, 11:26 am Actually, your route overlaps mine from Burloak and Sutton, and times are the same-ish, I work 7-3, usually. Was that you I saw this morning on Burloak at 7:15, as I passed by in my car lol I8217ve been riding all winter, but today I chickened out and took the car. Although I8217m MTB biking this afternoon I8217ll keep an eye out for you I ride 4 different bikes depending on certain things, but always wearing a white helmet and a beige windbreaker. diggs August 19, 2015, 10:21 pm I bike year round in MPLS to work 8 miles round trip. Best part of my day8230I love the snow days. Inspiring stories on this blog. That8217s my bike commute. 9.75 miles. It used to be longer, but I got a job 2 miles closer to home. However8230I don8217t do it every day, and I don8217t go both ways anymore. In the old days, I would bike 1-2 days a week. Now post-kid, I still do 1-2 daysweek, but I only bike TO work, and I drive HOME from work (spouse drives TO work and bikes home). Thomas October 8, 2011, 3:54 am My ride to work just about each day during teaching semesters, and that is 15.5 miles and takes 53 - 4 min. each way. I used to drive a car there but it was expensive and took longer on average. Also, and sometimes more importantly, I had to leave 1-2 hours early, just to take into consideration that the mornings queues might be especially bad or that an accident made the whole traffic stop for an hour or two. Now, I still leave early, about 30min. just in case I get a rare puncture, but get there in very predictable and dependeable time. Also, it8217s a real pleasure every morning to have that workout, and to zip past all the cars standing still on the highway, rememmbering all the stress that I used to have driving the car (oh, yeah, and finding a parking spot forgot to mention that). In the beginning, I had a nice electric bike and it made the commute easy but now I just use a normal road bike (450 second hand plus shoes and good tires on bargain 600) and it8217s a bit faster than on the electric one. I push myself a bit but try to avoid making it unpleasant. Except for the middle of winter (here in Sydney), I end up pretty sweaty but just wear some light sport shorts and a singlet (bare chest would be more sensible but I8217m a bit selfconscious8230 maybe should do it anyway) so that there isn8217t much clothing to get sweaty or wet if it rains, and then just quickly sink-wash my face and neck and arms when I get to work, change into work clothes in my office, letting the commute clothes dry. I also get to work happy and relaxed and full of energy, and I haven8217t been sick a single day for years now, and I8217d actually just do the bike ride for the sake of these factors alone. Anyway, go for it Don8217t worry if it takes you a bit long to get to work in the beginning you quickly get faster and more confident MMM October 8, 2011, 7:22 am Wow, Excellent story Thomas I would have thought 15.5 miles was too far for practical bike commuting every day but you have proven me wrong Doing that much cycling would be Awesome for you health. JB May 10, 2014, 9:07 am So out of curiosity, I have rode my bike to work several times. About 8.5 miles, mostly on a bike path. I have to go to my gym first to take a shower, then walk a mile to my office since I lock my bike at the gym. I sweat a ton after I cool down and I don8217t think I smell. I am going to experiment with the body wipes and just wipe down once I go directly to the office and see if anyone notices or cares. In a low humidity town, it wouldn8217t be a problem, but it is always humid here. Any other ideas Roger February 19, 2016, 3:16 am Marianna October 10, 2011, 5:28 pm What about biking to Harvard Square and taking the M2 Ingrid October 13, 2011, 5:26 pm Hi and you may have already tried your first ride to work by now. If not, I would suggest trying it on a Sunday or Saturday when there is significantly less traffic and it doesnt matter how long it takes or how sweaty you are when you get there. We often ride around Sydney on Sunday mornings when we are able to go most of the roads without fear of traffic. All the best and at least you are thinking about it Nat Pearre June 4, 2012, 1:49 pm As a fellow Maldiner (Maldite) I would suggest getting a good folding bike, and taking the Orange line (I8217m pretty certain you can bring folded bikes in bags on the T, even at rush hour). It looks like you could bike to Malden station in just a couple of minutes, fold up your bike, sit through the 24 minute ride, jump off at Ruggles and bike the remaining mile or so in another few minutes. Even waiting for a train I would think you8217d be door to door in less than 40 min, 20 or more of which you could spend reading. Craig From Az November 19, 2014, 1:25 pm You get used to the mileage very quickly. I started bicycle commuting in 1997 (already an experienced road cyclist at the time 8211 certainly made it easier) with a 14 mile (each way commute). My employer moved me all over the east side of the Phoenix metro area, and my commute ranged from 14 to 21 miles each way. Note that the 21 miles only took me about 15 minutes longer on a bike than by car, for which I received 1.25 hours of exercise. People at work thought I was insane for commuting during the summer (hottest day I rode 8211 117 degrees). But to be honest the 8220cold8221 winter mornings (in the 30s) were worse for me. I guess if you ride in the cold all the time and have all the gear it8217s probably not so bad. Heath November 20, 2014, 1:39 pm I too ride in Phoenix (Tempe, specifically), and I also have a much harder time with the 8216cold8217 days. Just this morning it was like 45 degrees outside, and it was MUCH harder to ride than on the 110 days. I get that I8217m complaining about a fucking reasonable temperature, but note that I8217m still riding my bike daily :-) I don8217t like that when I sweat under my jacket, it just makes me uncomfortable and then smelly later. I guess I should be wearing less clothing, but then I8217m freaking cold when I start. The standard advice appears to be: wear many thinner layers and then take them off as you warm up. Do people actually stop, take off layers and then stow them in the middle of a commute Seems like a pain. I8217ll just continue to wear my thick jacketspants, and wash my armpits when I get to work :-P Liz June 4, 2012, 9:04 am I Absolutely love this post because I have been gearing up to tackle my morning commute to work. I, like jforest, live a little over 7 miles from work. Luckily for me, it is nothing but bike routes the entire ride. The only problem I see are the dramatic changes in elevation along the route. I don8217t want to get all sweaty before I go to work My work place doesn8217t have a locker or shower room so I would have to get ready at a nearby gym. Maybe I8217m just being a drama queen about it. I should just pack the stuff needed to freshen up and just do it I bike an average10-20 miles on the weekends and I workout regularly so I know fitness wouldn8217t be a problem. My commute is from Queens, NY to Union Square in Manhattan. Marieta May 3, 2014, 4:35 pm Honestly, all you need for a quick freshen up is some baby wipeshand sanitizer, and a stick of deodorant. Bike, got to the bathroom to wipe yourself down, re-deodorize, and go to work It8217s quick and easy. (Hand sanitizer, with it8217s alcohol content, will kill odour-causing bacteria but is a bit a bit messier than baby wipes). Miami Al November 13, 2014, 3:09 pm Even the end of the Green Line to downtown Boston should be lt 10 miles8230 the city ain039t that big8230 I liked City living for a bit. Moved to Miami Suburbs. Did that for 10 years and enjoying it. Not sure where the future will take me. I do miss being able to just walk around to stuff. Kids have lots of activities everywhere. We039re pretty happy with our life, but reading your site got us to whack our expenses dramatically, and focused on FI instead of just getting through the month has been a big life change. Joe Average February 13, 2015, 8:52 am I did the city living thing and the military version of the same (barracks) for several years but found that I was spending alot of money to get away from the congested city to more rural settings 8211 fishing, camping, hiking, etc. I guess it just depends on what your personal method for unwinding is. We visit a trendy part of the next city down the highway that has alot of amenities and yes it would be nice to walk down the neighborhood street and take a left 8211 and have dozens of places to eat and drink and buy books. The problem for me is though that it involves living 8220inside8221 the rest of the time. Was like this when I lived in Italy. Fortunately I eventually moved to the fringes of the city there and had a yard, driveway, etc. Some folks relax mingling with others in bars and cafes. I like that but what really makes me the happiest is knocking around my shop, my yard or my house. The side effects of being an introvert. ) Time out and about can be nice but mental recharging really happens at home. Can8217t really weld and grind or run my table saw on a regular basis when the houses are 15 ft apart. Also there are the problems with kids and dogs 8211 both of which we have. Dog can8217t be off a leash 8211 which isn8217t a problem with a toy dog, but is a big problem when you have a sporting dog (Irish Setter) that lives to wander and run and play. Not sure I8217d endure a 75 minute commute each way if I didn8217t HAVE to do it. Nor do I think I8217d enjoy raising a family downtown either. Our solution has been a small town with a university where we can afford to live, where decent jobs can be had (not Wall Street jobs, but a good solid lifework balance), and where are opportunities to enjoy good food, a concert, a play, etc. Our commute lasts 15 minutes more or less. Great neighborhood schools, easy to run around town to soccer, Scouts, and school events. Nice affordable homes too. David March 16, 2016, 8:38 am I don8217t know your particular situation, but I bike in Boston year around and it8217s fine. Val October 6, 2011, 9:47 am MMM8230 what if you have kids you need to take to daycare near work In theory, one or two kids coulg go in a bike trailer, but I don8217t think that8217s safe. I certainly wouldn8217t feel good driving a bike for 7 miles with a kid on a trailer. I8217m trying to think creatively here but it seems that I8217m stuck with the car for a while8230 MMM October 6, 2011, 9:58 am Yeah, good question. Kids change things a bit for me too. I am much more selective about the roads I tow my son along with the bike trailer 8211 it has to be either the dead-quiet streets of my immediate neighborhood, or the off-street bike paths that cover the rest of town. And 7 miles one way would be a distance I would probably rarely pull him even with a bike trailer 8211 mainly because I don8217t want to waste his valuable time by strapping him into a seat for 20 minutes at a stretch on a regular basis. We8217d rather be out learning and playing. If an anti-commuter like me was in your situation, I would look for a daycare close to home (drop off kids, then leave trailer behind for the bike ride to work), or a home closer to daycarework, or a job in a location convenient to both. On the positive side, however, a 7-mile commute with no extra daycare driving is far below the average. and kids do grow up eventually, so it8217s only a temporary situation. Rachel April 25, 2012, 10:35 am I figured out a creative way to cut back on the commute with biking and drop my son off at his bus stop. He gets on the bus at 6:45 AM to go to middle school (his school is about 15 miles away). The bus stop is downtown, a few blocks from my office. Our house is 2 miles away. 2 miles is nothing to commute on a bike, but I didn8217t want to start my work day at 7 AM, and couldn8217t justify forcing my already very sleepy son to bike to the bus stop at 6:15 AM. Not to mention, I wouldn8217t be able to get his bike back with me. So, how to get my son to the bus stop, and still be able to bike to work The solution was pretty simple once I thought it through 8211 in the morning, I drive my son to the bus stop, with my bike attached to the back of the car (2 miles). I then park my car at my office and bike home. Get ready for work, etc. bike back to work, and then drive my car home at the end of the day (2 miles). So I cut a commuting routine that would have been 8 miles of ridiculous back-and-forth driving to 4 miles driving, 4 miles biking. Still better Nat Pearre June 4, 2012, 1:53 pm Tandem bike (if he8217s oldbig enough) or cargo bike Chris November 3, 2016, 5:53 am No reason to leave the kids carrier at the day care. I find cars give me a much wider birth when I8217m pulling it. They don8217t know when it is full or empty Phil October 11, 2011, 3:00 am Val, I took my kids to daycare in a bicycle trailer for years. I used to put a radio in tuned to Radio3 (a national classical music station here in the UK) to give them something to listen to and remember one evening when 8216Ride of the Valkyries8217 kicked in just as a massive thunderstorm broke over us as I was riding across the meadows here in Oxford: very atmospheric On the safety side, I did a spot of research before I bought the trailer (a Chariot Cougar) and the only tests I could find were done by a German road safety lab who determined that kids were actually safer in a trailer than on the back of a bike or tag-a-long. There8217s also nothing like a honking great trailer (with flag poking out the top) to make drivers far, far more cautious I think it8217s the rarity value: anything unusual captures people8217s attention. So these things can be done, but it does take a bit more commitment when you have children I8217ll admit. So far I8217ve spent twenty years not commuting by car Dancedancekj October 6, 2011, 11:39 am What if you have two work locations that you spend an equal number of days at I suppose the answer is to have one close to your home location (which I do, and is easily walkablebikeable) I will be of course, trying to negotiate so I can work more hours at the office location closer to me, but for now I8217m stuck. Marieta May 3, 2014, 4:46 pm I had the same dilemma when I started my new job last month. I work 3 days a week at one site, and 2 days at another in a city full of angrymindless commuters. Since I had to move for the job anyway, I ultimately decided to live 3 km away from the first work site, then car commute via back roads to the other. Soon I will look into finding a safe route to cyclocommute the 20 km to my second work site. Chris October 6, 2011, 11:39 am I8217ve read your articles on the pro8217s of bike riding and also plenty from Jacob8217s website. Honestly, I used to think that people who ride bikes are geeks. This is retarded. It8217s all in a mindset. I can8217t believe I never saw it before. It8217s the millionaire next door in a nut shell. I8217ve given a lot of thought to the benefits of bike riding (both health-wise and monetary) and it8217s a brilliant concept. I move around every three years or so in the military and can8217t wait to sculpt my next living situation into a more cost effectivehealthier scenario. I currently commute 23 miles each way and have a gas guzzler that gets 16 mpg. I8217m thinking seriously about trading in for an economy car to save cash and continue to build the stash It doesn8217t seem like a huge expenditure on a yearly basis, but, when you look at the 10 year expenditure, it8217s huge. It8217s another example of those invisible bars that enslave us. They8217re the easiest to break, but the hardest to see MMM October 6, 2011, 2:00 pm Wow, that8217s a nice transformation you made there Chris First of all, where I came from, 8220Geek8221 usually meant 8220Person who is smarter than me8221, which is a compliment even if it doesn8217t feel like it when you8217re in high school. Secondly, it8217s amazing that society doesn8217t look at bike riders vs. car drivers more like we look at military personnel vs. civilians. Who is more badass 8211 the person who rides around in a 4-wheeled Lazy Boy recliner with a climate controlled glass bubble around it, or the person who moves himself around with HIS OWN FUCKING LEG MUSCLES. 8230 Secondly, who is doing a greater service to his country 8211 the one using up all the oil and paving asphalt highways and parking lots over all the natural areas and farms, or the one using a vehicle that is 99 lighter and uses no fuel at all Bicyclists should really be considered another branch of our TROOPS You should definitely get a real car. 16 miles per gallon is reasonable if you8217re driving a cement mixer or a school bus. but to carry just your own ass Think 35 as a bare minimum. My car has 5 comfortable seats and gets 42MPG on average. My construction van carries a table saw, miter saw, large compressor, and about 500 other smaller tools plus lumber. or 7 full-sized passengers, and has averaged 27MPG combined so far. Sometimes just adding a cheap 100MPG scooter or a motorbike is a money-saver. Then you can keep your truck for heavy hauling and the odd snowrain day, but still cut your gas cost down by more than 60. Chris October 6, 2011, 2:50 pm I wish I flew around in a LazyBoy recliner in a comfy climate controlled cockpit. Unfortunately Hollywood doesn8217t always paint an accurate picture here. My last flying gig had me in me in a full pressure suit (much like Astronauts wear), in a metal ejection seat (no recline btw) and terrible climate control, considering the outside temp was routinely -60 C at 70,000ft. My own breath exhaling out of a valve consistently caused ice to form on the insides of my windows-sound comfy Also, my back felt money after doing this for ten hours straight with little ability to stretch and move. Similar to being stuck in a phone booth (I8217m 6821738243) with a bulky pressure suit on top of Mt Everest with a cabin altitude of 29,000ft. It was a blast to fly though when I wasn8217t scaring the shit out of myself:) Great Article Brotha, keep 8217em coming MMM October 6, 2011, 3:12 pm Oops, I didn8217t mean to suggest that the Lazy Boy rider was a PILOT. no, I was just saying that CAR DRIVERS are effectively sitting in reclining sofa seats in a climate controlled bubble. I fixed my comment to make it a bit more clear. Fighter jet pilots are still more badass than bicycle riders. Slash2012 April 30, 2012, 9:49 am LMAO at your comment about driving a cement mixer that gets 16 MPG I am in a commuting quandry myself. I may just rent an apartment for 6 months which is 22 miles from work, which would take 32 minutes with traffic each way. However, the martial arts class I go to 3 times a week is right down the street from the apartment complex that I8217ve been looking at, and that would save me time from commuting back home (0.3 miles from the complex). However, for the long term, I would like to work closer to work so I can bike. I have a touring bike (road bikes irritate the bulging disk in my neck) which I love riding. And I drive a car that has a 3.2L engine that requires Premium fuel. So you can imagine my need to shorten the commute (or dump the Acura8230). What would you suggest Liz October 6, 2011, 11:55 am I see some commenters have brought up the public transport commute. What is your take on this MMM I work in central London, England, and those who drive to work are rare. I think the average commute is around an hour door to door, and travelling 50 miles to work (by train) is not unusual. OK so it8217s not free, but compared to driving a car, there8217s potentially more walking (i. e. exercise), and the opportunity to use the time on the trainbussubway productively (read, returnwrite emails, think, plan etc). Any thoughts on this MMM MMM October 6, 2011, 1:29 pm It8217s certainly better than a car commute, but it sounds like a soul-sucking amount of time to me 8211 unless the total time you spend commuting and working still adds to only an amount you are comfortable with 8211 this was 8 hours for me. Not everyone has the same options available to them, but I am writing this article to suggest to most that there IS a better world for workers if you make the choice for yourself. A 5-30-minute walk or bike ride, to get to a job that is fun and lets you have free time outside of work. They do exist If anyone wants this lifestyle, they should continue to fight for it. ermine October 6, 2011, 5:14 pm liz. I used to do that in the 1980s. You are batshit crazy. Move out of the city, dude. It was my worst commute, ever, 1.5 hours for 15 miles. I got to hate my fellow man so bad, changing from surface rail to tibe to tube. l Even moving to Ealing and biking from White City was better, till I move out of the Smoke :) Don8217t even talk about the cost of public transport in the UK :( Liz October 7, 2011, 3:30 am I did do a 15 mile 1.5hr commute into London for a little while but decided that it wasn8217t for me. Despite the fact that I had a 8216nice8217 commute (seat both ways, no changes), and I could read etc, I didn8217t like getting up extra early or not having an evening beyond eat-bed. I moved back into the city, about 5 miles from work, so now I cycle or sometimes run 8211 best thing ever. I was just wondering what others have put more eloquently 8211 if you make use of the time, is it so bad I agree, there are some crazy commutes out there, your old one sounds pretty bad. As soon as you have to change trainstubes it8217s a whole different ball game8230 JB May 10, 2014, 9:42 am London is expensive to operate a car and they have a higher population density than most American cities. It is a mindset to walk 15-20 minutes to a train or bus to get to work. Most around here won8217t do it. I was paying 75 a month to park for work and it has become free in the last month. I live 8.5 miles from the office and only have to traverse a couple of major streets. It would be more of a health benefit than a time benefit for me since it takes 45 minutes to ride a bike vs 25 minutes by car. There are times I have meetings after work and I need to drive my car to work. I am going to try and do it more. B October 6, 2011, 12:00 pm Great article. We moved to south Longmont earlier this year. Its about 1.3miles from my work. The commute is wonderful. A short ride is a wonderful way to start a day. Plus I get the benefit of smelling Oskar Blues in the morning. My wife on the other hand still commutes 12miles to Lafayette. I guess half of us commuting is still better than both. On the same note as Brave New World. I work in a company of 11 people. We are right off of Ken Pratt kind of by Safeway. That means you could live in south Longmont, Old town Longmont, West Longmont or East Longmont. all of which have good neighborhoods and keep you commute to about 8 miles. About Half of the people decided they were going to work here and then bought a house in Boulder or Johnstown. Crazy just crazy MMM October 6, 2011, 1:17 pm Wow, that is a happy story I have never even heard of 8220Johnstown8221 despite having lived in this area for 12 years. The things people will do when they aren8217t MMM readers. Bullseye October 6, 2011, 12:14 pm MMM, you have to be the best blogger out there right now, and I read a lot of blogs. Every article is quality, keep up the excellent writing I thought I8217d seen every money saving theory and idea out there to achieve early financial freedom, but you keep bringing more My commute is exactly 10 miles, and I bike it occasionally, but usually drive. I can8217t see doing it on a regular basis, just a bit too far, and uphill most of the way home. I8217m in pretty good shape, too Maybe the problem is that I8217m riding a mountain bike. I actually trail ride with it, so it8217s pretty heavy and has knobby tires. Would a road bike make a big difference Or do I just need to suck it up and stop complaining The other problem is that I8217m a fellow Canuck, in southern Ontario. Snow and cold would make this commute impossible for a few months a year, meaning I8217d need a second car either way for that part. Ultimately, my goal is to retire early (at 45, 35 now) from rat race jobs, and then do casualseasonalpart time work or self-employment that requires no vehicle commuting. Trying to talk wife into moving to cheaper area, becoming instantly mortgage free, and implementing this plan sooner MMM October 6, 2011, 1:15 pm Wow, thanks Bullseye. You might be surprised if you switch to a cityroad type of bike. I used to scoff at the idea, because I thought all I8217d save is about 10 pounds over the old mountain bike I was riding 8211 a tiny percentage of the 200 I was already moving including me, bike, backpack with laptop, etc. Then I got a nice aerodynamic city bike with thinner tires, and I noticed my speed went up significantly (from about 24 kmhr to 30 kmhr average). Definitely worthwhile When I did some calculations on the wind resistance of the fatter tires, plus the different riding position, it made more sense (although still didn8217t explain a 25 jump in riding speed). Regardless of the physics, I am happy, because biking fast is fun. However, you DO also need to suck it up and stop complaining :-) Archon October 12, 2016, 2:26 pm I believe that rolling resistance comes into play here, especially if the mountain bike has low pressures to allow for rougher terrain. Googling led me to the following site which apparently does bike tire comparison testing, including rolling resistance: The top graph on each page shows data for the 15 best performers, and road tires (which take higher pressure by design) have about 5 watts less of rolling resistance compared to mountain bike tires. This is just me fudging an approximate average based on those charts. 5W is a considerable load, googling around looks like it8217s enough for a refrigerator condenser motor So going from Mountain bike to road bike will save you powering a refrigerator with your legs in addition to moving you from A to B. It may be an interesting experiment for you to increase the pressure in the tires you have now, and see if it becomes easier to ride, as the graphs show rolling resistance decreasing with pressure. Then again, this comment is half a decade old, so you8217ve probably figured it out already. PS: Rolling resistance should also be a consideration with road tires There is usually a tradeoff with traction, though, but 95 of people, and more for Mustachians, would benefit from the higher economy of low rolling resistance. Tracy October 8, 2011, 9:47 am I used to ride a hybrid bike for a 10-mile commute (uphill), then decided to splurge on a road bike8230 and it makes a huge difference That8217s even considering all the weight I8217ve added with commuting equipment (panniers, heavy-duty lights, fenders). If you have room for it, I8217d vote to get a road bike. John October 10, 2011, 1:35 pm I just bought my first mountain bike in years after having a road bike for a while. The mountain bike is awesome on the trails, but feels like I8217m dragging a wagon full of lead on the roads compared to my budget Fuji Newest 2.0 road bike. Massive difference You won8217t appreciate it until you really try it. I spent the last year walking 2 mile every day to work. I rode the bike occasionally but honestly it was too quick for my taste. I enjoyed the time out in the weather to walk and think ( 45 minutes each way). I would love to be about 10 miles out for a good bike commute. Unfortunately we recently moved 17 miles away (renting a farm) and with the road conditions and distance I haven8217t biked it at all yet. We love being out on this farm, but I8217m not sure it8217s been worth the trade-off for me. Nat Pearre June 4, 2012, 2:07 pm For the budget minded, I would suggest buying a 2nd set of wheels and putting 18243 or 1.58243 slicks on them. Changing out wheels takes all of 2 minutes (just watch those guys on the TdF), and a good used wheelset will cost you 100 instead of the 400-ish you8217d want to spend on a used road bike. Daniel October 31, 2015, 5:35 am I would also say get some clip in pedals (or SPDs as Shimano calls them) and some mountain bike style shoes with recessed clips. They take some practice but they are much more power efficient and make cycle commuting a doddle. You could easily get new pedals and shoes for less than 60 if you look around. Bullseye October 6, 2011, 12:30 pm PS 8211 transit is not even an option for winter, it8217s 1.5 hours each way Erin October 6, 2011, 12:51 pm I commute 40 miles each way in LA, which leaves me with about 2 and a half hours of driving time DAILY. It kills me, but I commute home to my parents8217 house where I live rent free. Lately I8217ve been wondering about the proscons of moving out, especially financially. Even though I8217m spending about 400 per month on gas, isn8217t that better than paying 800 to rent a room in an apartmenthouse that8217s not nearly as nice as my parents8217 I have a great job in an extremely competitive field and it pays me well, so I8217m not looking to quit anytime soon, but I was wondering 8212 do you think there are ever situations where commuting makes sense It seems like the best option for me, but the time and money lost is still frustrating. MMM October 6, 2011, 1:23 pm Erin, you are CRAZY. First of all, the total cost of driving is at least double the cost of gas, so you8217re NOT saving any money by avoiding the 800 apartment. Secondly, you8217re spending 55 hours in a car per month for nothing Even if you were saving 2,000 per month this would be a foolish endeavor Move close to work, and I mean now, like this weekend Send us pictures of your new pad and your lovely walk or bike ride to work. By the way, I checked out your stuff on the Internet 8211 you do have a cool job Erin October 6, 2011, 5:39 pm Thanks for the reply, MMM You8217re right. The soul-crushing commuting will come to an end I have a few friends nearby who have been looking to change living situations and you8217ve motivated me to get us in gear and apartment-hunting. Sharing space with more people should cut costs and maybe now I8217ll actually have time to actually enjoy my life. Thanks for the (as always) sound advice MMM October 6, 2011, 9:01 pm Wow, really That is fantastic news to hear that this blog has killed an 80 mile LA commute. Erin, YOU WIN THE MOST MUSTACHIAN COMMENT AWARD FOR TODAY8217S ARTICLE. Ich stimme zu. And that LA commute is just AWFUL One of my engineers drives 70 miles each way, 4 days per week. He fills his gas tank every 2 days, I fill mine every 2 weeks. Physics girl October 6, 2011, 1:34 pm I commute about 2 miles on a bike in West Chester, PA. It is fairly hilly, but a pleasant ride. I have had many many comments about safety 8211 do you feel safe 8211 aren8217t you worried about being hit I generally answer that I feel comfortable that I have taken precautions such as lights and reflectors and that I bike safely. I don8217t generally say it, but i think about the death rate due to obesity vs. the death rate due to being hit by a car. Dee October 6, 2011, 5:24 pm The one flaw I see in this argument is that it contains an assumption that won8217t bear out in every case 8212 the assumption that one doesn8217t enjoy one8217s time commuting. In my case, I take a bus and while it isn8217t completely peachy-keen, as it takes me a good 45 mins. each way and I only live about 11km from work, for the portion of the ride where the bus moves along quickly, stopping infrequently, and I8217m sitting with my face buried in a book that I8217m completely absorbed in, it ranks as one of the best parts of my day. The bus is pretty much my favourite reading location. That being said, right now I would gladly reduce my commuting time because I8217d really like to get a dog. As things stand, with my commute, I8217m away from home for about 10hrs on workdays, which I think means I need to get a dog-walker along with a dog. m741 October 6, 2011, 6:39 pm There are some people who are totally batshit insane about commuting. In the financial industry in NYC, there are people who commute from Princeton, NJ and Greenwich, CT. Their daily commute is 2 hours EACH WAY. They drive to the train station, take the train into NYC, take the subway to near the office, and then walk into the office. Some of them take a ferry, which is even more expensive. Keep in mind, these are people who spend on average 11 hours each day AT WORK. So they are away from home for about 15 hours per day. The justification So their kids can go to a nice school I don8217t have kids, but if I did, I8217d value spending 2-3 hours per day with them over sending them to a nice school. I spent a year living 1 hour 40 minutes away from where I worked, because I wasn8217t familiar with the area when I moved there. I was working 10 hoursday. It was a total nightmare. I was away from home for about 13 hours every weekday and it left me exhausted. Now my commute is 30 minutes each way, and costs 3day. I guess I could do better but I like having some separation from work. MMM October 6, 2011, 6:52 pm Damn good point about the schools, Wolf My own son goes to a school in our 8216hood that sometimes gets passed over by the local high-income parents. They like to go to the private and charter schools further away from home. Perhaps they don8217t like the fact that not all the lessons in my school are taught in English. Meanwhile, Junior 8216Stash has the advantage of all the parent teaching he can handle. At age 5, we8217ve already had time to read through about 50 full-size novels with him, he reads and writes and likes documentaries on evolution and the solar system much more than things like cars or mickey mouse. While you can never fully separate nature vs. nurture with kids, I8217d still bet that spending your life in what is basically a non-stop library-science-lab-funhouse with engaged parents, and going to a regular school, is educationally better than having parents who both work 40 hours a week and going to a fancier school. Adrienne October 7, 2011, 8:50 am Yes I know people who are spending 30k for Kindergarten That8217s 30,000 for 5yr olds8230 I think some people get hung up on test scores and the like but forget that most standardized testing is biased toward certain classes and races. I love our local school which is very diverse (both in and race) despite its lower end scores. I believe (especially when they8217re young) that I am my kids best teacher. They learn a lot at home from me and their dad (both part-timers). What they get at school is more socialization and learning to work together. diggs August 19, 2015, 10:26 pm We left a 10 out of 10 public school for a 2 out of 10 public school (test scores) because we wanted a closer school in our new community (we just moved to). The school is diverse and has been a positive influence on our kids. I just read this book which makes an argument that character matters more than going to a 8220great8221 school in children8217s success. amazonHow-Children-Succeed-Curiosity-Characterdp0544104404 Ah commuting sucks for sure. Some of my family members commute 45 minutes in the country, which isn8217t so bad. But at work Our town is very expensive. So, people who work here8230many come from the towns nearby. But it8217s not one long suburb. You8217ve got Santa Barbara and Goleta. Then a long stretch of highway. Then Lompoc, Buellton, and Santa Maria to the Northwest. To the south is Carpinteria (30-40 mins), then Ventura, Oxnard, and Camarillo (45 mins to an hour). These other towns are cheaper, but you will have at least a 30-45 minute commute each way. The expectation is to have a bigger house, I think. That, and the average starter house in SBGoleta is about half a million. While some people can8217t believe I8217d live in a tiny 2BR house with no garage and only one bathroom, the guy who has been commuting for an hour each way for 8 years thinks maybe I was smart. I8217d really like to be closer than 10 miles to work, but when we bought the house, we were looking for a house mid-point between our two jobs. We were closer to spouse8217s job, and he biked to work 3x a week (5 miles each way). Now we both work in the same area, so it would be nice to be closer. I understand the desire to get into a better school, but in this town that house is 200k more than mine, and you can get a good private school education for that (we still go to public school). I lived in the DC area out of college, and my commute ranged from 45 mins by walkingsubway, to 25 min driving (same startend points as the subway), and a 1-mile walk (my final commute when I was living there8230I kept moving closer) The whole workcommute thing is so personal, and each person8217s idea is so different. I leave work early every day to pick up my son from school. People know this. You wouldn8217t believe the ways people try and get me to work longer hours. 8220What if we had onsite daycare8221 No. (These are never people who have the power to make this happen 8211 in fact they aren8217t parents.) But even one of my parent-friends made a comment about how hard it is to work and go home and parent when you are tired, and he said 8220and nannies would be great but they are so expensive8221 Really Really After working a full day, I8217d rather just hire a nanny to pick up my kid, help him with homework, cook my dinner, and hear about his day, so I can just come home and brush his teeth and put him to bed. All so I can work longer hours Um8230don8217t think so. Bullseye October 7, 2011, 6:05 am My co-worker in NY lives in Stony Point, and our office is at Grand Central. He drives 15 minutes, takes a ferry across the river, then the MTA train into the city, 1 hr 45 mins each way (48 miles). That8217s if everything goes well, and the river is not frozen over. When I do my quarterly visit to that office, I sometimes park at his house and do the commute with him8230holy crap I8217d rather work at the McDonald8217s down the street from him than do that every day. He8217s gone every day from 6am till 7-8pm, and he has three kids. Joe Average February 13, 2015, 1:45 pm And the kids are the most fun when they are young. Don8217t get my wrong 8211 I enjoy our teenager alot too but I wanted to be home as much as possible when they were really little but unfortunately due to college classes (started college and family at age thirty) and work (sometimes multiple little jobs) I was gone more than I wanted to. Not as much as these mega-commuters though. Retirement is nice but I value some time in my younger years to enjoy the simple things too like playing with our kids, dog, and little family excursions to the park or grocery store. poko October 7, 2011, 7:07 am I can definitely say I8217m pumped to start my new job later this month: 1.5 miles from my house Unfortunately, my husband8217s job is moving out of downtown and likely into the suburbs somewhere, so he will have to start driving more unless he finds another job :( Yabusame October 7, 2011, 7:20 am Until 2 years ago, I had a 2 mile commute on my bike. I even used to cycle home for lunch, so I didn8217t have to spend money in the work canteen (I didn8217t like to pack lunches either). So, I8217d cycle home for lunch, cook something yummy (or just something quick) and then cycle back to work in the afternoon. So, I had 4 trips of 2 miles each day on my mountain bike. Some steep hills in between too, but when I switched my knobbly mountain tyres to road tyres things were a lot easier. 2 years ago, GF, stepson amp I moved in together in a new home. Handy for GF to get to work on the bus (4 mile commute) as she can8217t ride a bike. Handy for stepson to walk to school, less than 1 mile. Unfortunately, that left me with an 11 mile commute. I used to do it in the car and it would take about 45 minutes each way. I sold the car and now use a motorbike that takes 25 minutes instead (plus its time I consider to be fun). I sometimes take the bus to work, but because it has to go via the bus station in the city it means two buses and 1 hour to get to work. I don8217t mind that though as I consider it time for me to spend reading a good book. I have cycled to work, but the safe cycle distance is closer to 13 miles and my bicycle was suffering on that (so was I). Unfortunately, the bicycle isn8217t well at the moment (snapped the chain), and I8217d probably buy a proper road bike if I wanted to do that commute regularly but I enjoy the motorbike amp bus commute so I8217m happy. (I finish working there at christmas so I8217m not worried about the commute any more). To be honest, I8217m a little smug that I don8217t own a car anymore. I know my bank account is healthier for it too. C40 October 7, 2011, 8:58 am This spring, I moved closer to work. Before 8211 33 mile commute. I live in the far north and on bad winter days it took 1 hour each way. After 8211 Less than a mile. 5 minute walk. With nice scenery along the way. Yay By my calculations, I save about 700 per month. (This includes transportation costs plus other savings like lower rent, cheaper internet service, etc.). This increases my savings rate by something like 10, which will help me reach FI significantly earlier than I would8217ve otherwise. When I calculate my real hourly work rate, ala YMOYL (which also accounts for commute time), the move got me a huge hourly raise. Something like 20. David Baillieul October 7, 2011, 9:51 am We lived in a rural burb for 14 years with 2 cars going full time running kids to activities, etc. 3 years ago we moved much closer to worktown. Recently dumped 1 vehicle and do a mix of public transportbiking when necessary. Interestingly, we had a family member take offense to going one car, thought we were cheap and nuts. So now, we also get the satisfaction of frustrating her with our one car choice. Priceless Joe Average February 13, 2015, 1:50 pm Are we related to the same people ) Fun watching the rest of the social circle observe and slowly 8220get it8221 why we make the choices we do. Not like many (any) will make the same choices but perhaps their own choices might weigh on them a little heavier thus motivating them to someday change. Who knows Who cares Live and let live. What will happen (its happened before) suddenly someone in that group will make a similar choice to one we made ages ago and they8217ll suggest that this is revolutionary. Nobody has ever thought of this like they have8230 Again live and let live. Just hard not to say something when they make the rounds and wave it in your face like nobody has had a great idea like their8217s. Happened this Christmas with drawing names instead of shopping for everyone. We8217ve been suggesting this for years but someone else suggested it this year and so it was a far better idea than when we suggested it. ) This is a great article. I was unemployed for a while this summer and jumped at the first job offer I got 8212 which has a 32-mile commute each way. It8217s about an hour in the morning and an hour in the half in the evening unless a local coworker rides with me (which she does about half the time). Even that only trims about 10-20 minutes off the drive. I told my recruiteragent to find me something closer to my current apartment after this contract is up. Aside from the money, the MENTAL toll it8217s taking on me to have the commute is a killer. This is the first time in six years I8217ve lived more than 7 miles from work. NEVER AGAIN. Tracy October 8, 2011, 10:17 am Both my partner and I work in the suburbs opposite Seattle. As a favor to a friend, we rented his house (he couldn8217t sell it) in the city and carpooled, 45 minutes each way. Ugh, it was horrible. Finally after a year we moved back to the suburbs, now we can carpool if it8217s raining (10 min), but usually I bike the 4 miles each way. I used to hate biking, but have gotten a lot better and now actually enjoy it. Sadly, my partner8217s office just relocated five miles further away, so I can8217t convince him to ride 9 miles8230 I convinced my boss to participate in the Bike Commuter Tax Reimbursement (an alternative transportation fringe benefit that reimburses bike commuters 20month for bike-related expenses) 8211 bikeleague. orgnews100708faq. php. So now I get paid to ride my bike Well, at least it makes it free to ride. If anyone8217s employer offers other transportation fringe benefits (e. g. bus passes), see if you can talk them into adding the bike reimbursement. I had hoped that some of my coworkers would start riding with the extra benefit, but so far it8217s just me and my rockstar coworker who rides 20 miles each way. Other people have admired my ride, but no one8217s taken the plunge (one coworker lives just a mile up the road from me, but there8217s no bike lane and the road is nasty). Ironically, a new toll is starting on a bridge to the city that all the commuters are freaking out about (admittedly it is pricey, 4 each way), but still no one will consider biking. Aleks December 1, 2012, 3:57 am Your experience is an interesting contrast with mine. I also work in the Seattle suburbs, but have made a point of living in the city (Capitol Hill and Ballard). For me, I look at it this way. I can live close to where I work, and be far away from everything else. Or I can live close to everything else, and be far away from work. I make exactly 10 one-way trips tofrom work, and my out-of-pocket cost is 0, since my employer provides a free shuttle service. (Plus, if I work from home 1-2 days a week, I can reduce that to 6-8 trips.) But by living in the city, I can walk or bus pretty much everywhere, and have no need for a car. Admittedly, a big part of this is my own strong preference for dense, urban living. But also, I think that buying a house in a place I didn8217t really want to live, just because it was close to my job, would be a very short-sighted move. There are dozens of reasons that I might end up getting a new job, and virtually every other employer in my industry is in the city. So buying a house in the suburbs would additionally be making a gamble that I would continue working at the same company for the rest of my career. All that said, if I had to drive each way, I probably wouldn8217t have taken the job in the first place. The free shuttle bus means that the only cost is my time, and I actually enjoy my trip 8212 it8217s a nice chance to nap or listen to music. That was an interesting read. I8217ve always lived close enough to ride my bike to work. My last real job was about 10 miles away, which took about 45 minutes to ride, or about 20 to drive. I always felt good after a ride, and they had a shower at work, so it was no problem. If it was rainy too many days in a row, I would feel out of sorts. I went back there to visit after not working there for years, and people knew of me as that guy who rode is bike from so far. Now I work as a freelancer, mostly at home. I was going to Silicon Valley for one day a week, but I would not drive unless I had to. I could take a bus and train and then I got a scooter for grown-ups to go the last mile from the train to work. At least I still was getting out and getting exercise, which doesn8217t happen if you8217re driving all the time, and driving is so much more stressful. On the bustrain I can work on my computer, read, or just listen to music. Adam October 10, 2011, 1:33 pm Thanks Mr. MM The commute is just one in five trips a household makes - you can find out how much households spend on all their transportation at abogo. cnt. org. We here at CNT have been crunching the numbers on combined housing and transportation affordability - defiantly an important way people can save money Shashi October 10, 2011, 1:42 pm Interesting read. Another point while doing the calculations would be overall health benefits of cycling, which could probably lead to lower healthcare costs when one turns older. I mean it is difficult for some people like me to find time to exercise or go to a gym. I started cycling to work daily as the commute time remains the same yet I am able to burn some calories as well. So my exercise time and commute time overlap and thus I have more time to spend on other things. John Fiala October 10, 2011, 4:27 pm I8217m behind your ideas 100 there, although in my case I8217m commuting via the bus and not a bike. The bus passes near my home, winds through the area, and drops me off a few blocks from work, allowing me a few blocks of walking every morning and evening. I get to relax and enjoy some reading, listening, or naval-gazing, and I8217m soon going to be paying for the passes with pre-tax dollars as well. In the past I8217ve worked in Boulder (1 hour bus ride) and Golden (20 minute car ride), and Downtown with driving, and other than the minor inconvenience of adjusting my schedule to fit RTD8217s, I8217m loving this commute the most. Rachel October 10, 2011, 4:45 pm I think I have the best commute 8211 down the stairs to my home office Venkatesh October 10, 2011, 4:53 pm Excellent line of thinking Also, if you do similar calculations of the true costs of food items, I am sure you will see how economical it is to have seasonal, local grown food as opposed to the food that travels miles and miles from the place of farming, there by demanding commuting, preservations and freezing, among other costs. And, a similar line of thinking can be applied to ruthless meat and other animal food eating. Now, imagine an individual8217s clothing needs, against the backdrop of advertisements and fashion houses like us to believe If you are wondering where all this is leading up to, it is we should take charge of the logistics of our living ourselves instead of depending on corporations. It will not only reduce daily expenses, but will give more time to interact with others in a communal manner, reduce the incidents of lifestyle diseases, and so on. Chad October 10, 2011, 7:02 pm Very timely article, as I am currently talking to a prospective employer in South Denver. My commute would increase a little over 30 miles each way. I was trying to put a cost to the increase in miles and time, but I was definitely missing some variables. I think I may just stick with my short commute and flexibility for working from home. Mel October 10, 2011, 8:52 pm What do you recommend for cities like Cleveland and Buffalo, who get 2-3 feet of lake effect snow for4 or 5 months out of the year MMM October 11, 2011, 11:50 pm That8217s right near where I grew up My recommendation: biking or walking (and in the longer term, moving -)) GC January 13, 2015, 1:13 am I lived in Cleveland Heights (Cedar Fairmount area) without a car (or a bike either) for five years while attending school at Case. I either took the RTA (student pass) or walked everywhere. If you have the right gear (good boots, parka), walking or riding a bike around Cleveland and the nearby surrounding suburbs is definitely possible, even in the winter. In the mornings while I was out waiting at the bus stop, I used to see this one couple riding their bikes down Cedar Road even in the dead of winter. Considering how long and steep that hill heading into Cleveland from Cedar-Fairmount is, biking it takes some real guts on an icy road Roy June 29, 2015, 2:16 pm Funny enough, I also live in Cleveland Heights, and I walked a mile to the RTA stop at Shaker and Lee the past two winters despite that pesky 8220polar vortex8221 thingy. Good boots and double socks did the trick. I work downtown, and I saw some serious bad-asses biking on some very thick tires all winter long. Whenever I felt like complaining about the weather, I8217d immediately see someone bike past my office, forcing me to sit down and sip my hot chocolate in my nicely heated office. Peonsafari October 11, 2011, 2:22 am I had a job up to a year ago which required me driving all over town. I was paid 58 cents per mile, but the wear and tear and time was still a losing proposition. In the last year, I have gotten out of my car loan, bought a car outright (cash, no credit, no loan), it8217s a stick shift, 25 year old BMW 325 ES, small tank, very efficient, and changed jobs. I now live 1.5 miles from the office. Here in southern California, that8217s unheard of. I sometimes walk but 1 mile of it is a rather big hill8230fine in the mornings, exhausting in the afternoons. When I drive I put it in neutral for that mile and coast down the hill. I fill my car up about once every 5 weeks. I do use it for shopping and other trips sometimes..if I didn8217t I think I could go two months on a single tank, 3 miles a day. For the first time in my adult life, I have gone a year without needing some sort of car repair save for some basic maintenance (changed the oil once this year) The money saved is amazing, but the time is even more noticeable. I leave for work at 825 to be there at 830, and my route is a residential street with 1 traffic light. I leave at 5, I am home at 5:05. I wake up an hour before I am due at the office. DJ October 11, 2011, 6:46 am We went car free last Spring and this will be our first winter as such. Just my two kids and I. Triplet (bicycle built for three), Tandem (for two). my Velomobile and bus passes when needed. My job is basically raising my two autistic kids. Giving up the car even though we only drove perhaps 1,500 miles a year has given us a boost in useable funds and with a mortgage of just over 800 a month on a 1,700 sq ft passive solar house, we are doing pretty good. Our utilities are pretty low and this is a good place to live and raise children. Ian Wright October 11, 2011, 10:39 am As I an Ottawa native I am very impressed you manged to bike year round there. It is brave man who can get up in the morning and face -25C weather on a bike. I really enjoyed this post. I8217m in my late 20s and have never owned a car. Of course I have always chosen to live close to downtown of any city I live in. I have tried explaining my view to many of my friends, some get it others really want the suburban lifestyle. Fortunately, I married someone who agrees with me 100 on this issue. It makes such a huge difference. I now live in central London and the number of people willing to sacrifice time (most people don8217t drive as other have mentioned above) to live in a bigger place further out is really quite amazing. I would sacrifice size over location any day of the week to avoid a 1 hour commute each way like some people I know. Kathy P. October 11, 2011, 11:03 am Just for fun, I checked the Google bicycle map. My commute in the car is 7.7 miles (one way). Takes me about 20 minutes (Mapquest says 14 minutes but I would have to catch every light green), 25 if the roads are bad. The Google bicycle map gives me an alternate route (the car route includes a 4-lane, limited access highway, no bikes allowed) that8217s 7.8 miles but would take 43 minutes of hair-raising sharing the roadway with crazy people who are late for work. I teach at a community college so many of my fellow road warriors as I get closer to school are 18 year olds who have only been driving a couple years and think they8217re hot stuff as they lane hop and speed. (Yet another reason that I8217m one of the chickens that wants bike lanes, not a bumpy, narrow, glass filled shoulder before I8217ll take to the road on a bike. If I even still remember how to ride.) Plus my car has heated seats, a nice sound system, all that. Yeah, yeah, I know 8211 it does cost me money. But out where I live I have a big yard to grow a substantial amount of food, which saves me money. Anyway, I like reading these exchanges, because I find folks8217 differing situations interesting. Michelle October 11, 2011, 12:08 pm I appreciate your article and the message it spreads but I think in hard economic times like these the job market just isn8217t what it used to be and the question of commuting becomes increasingly difficult for young families with little experience. My fiance and I were laid off over two years ago and since had to rely on unemployment and part-time jobs. Within the last 6 months we have finally found the jobs we were waiting for. The problem They are 50 miles apart. We8217ve been living together for almost 3 years and aren8217t about to split up over it. But in our situation the only realistic move puts us each 25 miles away from our job and leaves us in a terrible neighborhood. What is the solution Nat Pearre June 4, 2012, 2:43 pm If you really are both committed to your jobs, then that is a bit of a bind. My suggestion (though be warned, I don8217t currently have a mustache), would be to look at both job locations and the bike routes and neighborhoods around both, and move to one of them, then get rid of the extra car. While the per-mile costs are very real, the fixed costs of car ownership are also very real, maybe 1200yr for insurance, 40 for registration, a significant fraction of depreciation is also time rather than mileage, etc. Then get a good cargo bike for the short-commute person and join the community. (EDIT: Sorry, I didn8217t notice the next comment was a reply to this comment with much the same advice, though not assuming jobs as important.) This is Mrs. MM and I will attempt to take a stab at your comment because I find it to be an interesting (and most likely common) problem. First of all, congrats on finding jobs And, it sounds like you might be willing to move, which is also great. Here are the questions I8217d ask myself in your situation: 8211 does one of you have the opportunity to work from home sometimes 8211 does one of the jobs allow more flexibility (arriving later to avoid traffic, etc.) 8211 which job is in an area you would like to live in is the area affordable 8211 which job is more stable andor makes more money 8211 which area has more employment opportunities 8211 does one area have better public transit 8211 I would look at other things that might affect you, like schools, bike paths, community, and who prefers biking and who doesn8217t mind driving Given all this information, I would move to the town that was within biking distance of ONE of the jobs and had more opportunities for employment for the other spouse. Then, the other spouse can start looking for another job in that town asap, as a 50-mile commute would suck. But, if one person is biking and the other is driving, then there are opportunities for savings as you might only need one car instead of 2. If the person working further away also has the opportunity to work from home once or twice a week, that would make things even better8230 Having said all this, honestly, if it was me I would not do a 50-mile commute. So, I would accept the better job (based on criteria above) and have the other person work part time until they could find a job nearby (if 2 incomes are needed after saving all that money from biking to work). ) Thanks for the question and good luck Steve October 11, 2011, 2:52 pm This all reminds me of an essay by Ivan Illich 8211 8220Energy and Equity8221 For most of my adult working life as a software geek I always lived within walking or cycling distance from work. I then took the analysis a step further and realized the job itself was the problem. So now I drive from job to job in a van filled with chainsaws and climbing equipment in order to prune and remove trees. Exercise is built in to the job and I work when I want, one day a week or 5 days. Of course I8217ll have to return to the computer screen when my almost 40 year old body starts complaining too much. Joe Average February 23, 2015, 3:22 pm So now you drive a van full of chainsaws8230 Nah, not creepy at all. ) RD October 11, 2011, 3:39 pm I8217ve got a four mile bike commute that I indulge in daily (other than January. and February, that is8230 Albany NY8217s street plowing skills are dubious at best), and I bought the house precisely because of the reasons mentioned above. But I8217d also suggest that amenities in one8217s surrounding neighborhood should factor in, too. For example, I8217ve got a public library, post office, sushi joint, Asian and Italian groceries, a handful of good restaurants and an indie movie theater within less than a quarter mile radius. All this results in even less driving. english bloke October 12, 2011, 12:58 pm I live in the UK, work in London 65 miles away and have a 2.5 hour approx commute each way everyday and mine is by no means considered excessive. I have 2 train changes to make on my journey and have never once yet been late for work. I get up at 0500, get on the train at 0601 and get to work around 0830, I leave at 1630 and get home just before 1900. Today my first station was closed, fatality on the track in the station so I had to jump on the tube and cross 14 of London with luckily only 1 change then grab a train from Victoria which as luck would have it got me home only 25 mins late In my office I would say about 13 or people have at least a 1.5 hour commute as living in London is quite frankly difficult to the point of self punishment due to the crime, house prices (at least double where I live in London generally, in the area where I work triple at least) and the general filth of the place. Most of us live on the coast, where I live I am 1 min from the beach and 30 mins walking from the hills and woods of the South Downs so the commute is worth it for the better standard of living. Plus I get to read 3-5 books a week, expensive but a joy to have that much time a day to read. Brodiemac October 12, 2011, 2:58 pm Man do I miss living in Longmont. I miss Colorado in general. - Jesse October 12, 2011, 3:22 pm I think it8217s usually a bit more complicated than your hypothetical suggests. First, if you work in an urban area, for every 5-10 miles closer to the city you pay a magnitude greater per square foot for housing, easily surpassing the costs of commuting. Second, there are all sorts of other relevant variables besides being able to bike to work. For example, if you live within walking distance to a busmetro line that takes you straight to work, you can live farther out without having to drive and thus shelling out the extra cash. Yes, it takes longer, but see point number one. Also, it8217s cliche to complain about commuting but try living in too small of a space with kids 8211 THAT8217s an insane asylum. Finally, you apparently haven8217t been let in on the secret that if you wake up before other people, your commute time is much less. Plus you feel like a boss turning on the lights in a dark office in the morning. If people are too lazy to get up early enough to cut down on their commuting time, they don8217t deserve the extra cash. Gerard June 12, 2012, 7:16 pm But that8217s what MMM IS saying8230 the cashtime benefits of the more expensive close-to-town place outweigh the 8220cheaper8221 farther-out place that eats up hours of your time andor makes you get up at 5 am. wrt a too-small space with kids, hmmm, most of the world seems to manage it8230 how did our kids get so awful that being near them is an insane asylum afuzzyllama October 12, 2011, 4:01 pm I am curious if you could comment on hybrid cars. I really would like to buy a scooter, but where I live (Florida) riding a scooter to work on the roads I have to take is basically a death wish. Do you think that cost of a hybird (or the upcoming Prius plug in) is reasonable when it comes to trying to save money on commuting The base cost of 35k is pretty steep, but (when thinking about the plugin) I could commute to work without using a drop of gas (though the cost of charging would have to be taken into consideration). I am very interested in your thoughts on this. MMM October 12, 2011, 8:34 pm Go for the scooter mrmoneymustache20110819guest-posting-get-rich-with-scooters There8217s nothing inherently dangerous about scooters (vs. motorcycles, for example) on any particular road if you pick a model that can keep up with traffic. You8217ll never save money buying a NEW hybrid. In the new car field, I8217d currently pick a Toyota Yaris. But if you can get a 2004 Prius with reasonably low miles for a little under its blue-book value of 9,000, that could save money over even an economy car, if your commuting has a big city component to it (since the Prius really kicks ass in city mileage). afuzzyllama October 12, 2011, 8:49 pm My love of scooter was reignited by that post of yours (which prompted me to write the previous comment) I do agree, if you buy a beefy scooter you can keep up with traffic, but driving a car in Florida is scary enough. If my commute was on the back roads, I8217d be all about it, but on the 4555 roads I8217d be 6 feet under with my first accident. I used to drive a Yaris in Japan and the gas mileage was sick I8217m still in love with that car, but with all the talk of electricsetc I was wondering if there is any value in that yet8230. time will tell I guess, but my wallet cannot be a laboratory for big ticket items like that Thanks for the input Bob October 12, 2011, 4:29 pm Just read a book or work stuff on your commute (assuming you take public transport). My commute is about 1hr each way, even though I only live a few miles from work (inner city and all). Crissa October 12, 2011, 4:36 pm But the bank won8217t let us pay 954,000 more for a closer house 8230So instead we cut the commute to once a week and work at home the rest of the time. Leave a Reply To keep things non-promotional, please use a real name or nickname (not Blogger My Blog Name) The most useful comments are those written with the goal of learning from or helping out other readers 8211 after reading the whole article and all the earlier comments. Complaints and insults generally won8217t make the cut here, but by all means write them on your own blog